Yellow Triangle forever

ccrider2

Member
3.20.2.616

I'm consistently getting the 'yellow triangle'. :confused: Not sure if it's only one particular TV channel or not......got way behind during the Shuttle mission, so not sure what was recorded from where.
I'll start a DVD folder burn with a project file, only to come back hours later to find the 'remaining time' counting upward.....never stops. If click 'abort', the app stays minimized and I have to 'right-click' and choose 'close'.
Now, here's the odd thing.......If I save the project as a .TS file, (I do get "MAX PTS Underflow ms ....." when doing this) then do the DVD folder burn with the .TS, it will finish just fine. Seems like making 'cuts' to the video might be causing the issue, as saving the whole file as a .TS file then doing the 'cuts' causes the same 'Triangle' problem.

Any Ideas?

Thanks Much,
Chris
 
Last edited:

Dan203

Senior Developer
Staff member
Can you open one of the problem files in VRD, click Ctrl+L and copy/paste the info here.

Dan
 

ccrider2

Member
File Name: D:\MyHDHomeRun2\M#A#S#H - The Movie.tp
File Size: 3258363904 ( 3.03 GB )
Program Duration: 02:31:56.16
File Type: TS Stream
Encoding: MPEG2
Video stream Id: 81 (x51)
Encoding Dimensions: 720 x 480
Display Size: 720 x 480
Aspect Ratio: 4:3
Frame Rate: 29.97 FPS
Bit Rate: 15.000 Mbps
VBV_Buffer: 224 KB
Profile: Main@Main
Progressive: Prog or Int
Chroma: 4:2:0
Audio Format: 2.0
Audio Stream Id: AC3: 84 (x54)
Audio Bit Rate: 192 Kbps
Audio Sampling Rate: 48000 Hz
TS Mux Rate (bps): 2821049

Thanks,
Chris
 

Dan203

Senior Developer
Staff member
Try checking the box in the DVD dialog that says "Allow non-complaint DVD settings". Your file is actually DVD complaint, but because of the 15mbps header bitrate it's probably being forced to recode unnecessarily. Checking that box should allow you to create a DVD in just a couple minutes.

Dan
 

ccrider2

Member
That worked. I wonder why this was never required in the past?????
Is there a value (bitrate) that checking this box -won't- be required? 15mbit seems fairly high for OTA TV ....at what 19.4 max? I just don't want to 'box myself out' of putting these on plastic, in the near future, if I always check that box.
 

Dan203

Senior Developer
Staff member
That worked. I wonder why this was never required in the past?????
Is there a value (bitrate) that checking this box -won't- be required? 15mbit seems fairly high for OTA TV ....at what 19.4 max? I just don't want to 'box myself out' of putting these on plastic, in the near future, if I always check that box.
Not sure, maybe something has changed in the broadcast stream or in your capture software.

In any case DVDs allow a maximum bitrate of 9.8Mbps. So when it sees a file with a header bitrate of 15Mbps it assumes it has to recode. Checking that box allows it to ignore the bitrate and pass the video straight through. And as long as the actual video bitrate is less then 9.8Mbps the resulting DVD works fine.

The only other option you have is to go into Tools->Options->Stream Parameters and check the box that says "Set header to video bitrate", then run your files through QSF first. This will reset the header bitrate to the actual video bitrate rather then the made up value of 15Mbps.

Dan
 

ccrider2

Member
Not sure, maybe something has changed in the broadcast stream or in your capture software.

In any case DVDs allow a maximum bitrate of 9.8Mbps. So when it sees a file with a header bitrate of 15Mbps it assumes it has to recode. Checking that box allows it to ignore the bitrate and pass the video straight through. And as long as the actual video bitrate is less then 9.8Mbps the resulting DVD works fine.

The only other option you have is to go into Tools->Options->Stream Parameters and check the box that says "Set header to video bitrate", then run your files through QSF first. This will reset the header bitrate to the actual video bitrate rather then the made up value of 15Mbps.

Dan
Dan,
Thanks for the response.

So I assume it's having an issue recoding the content. I had audio issues with this machine that cleared-up up after reinstalling the sound drivers. Might there be something that could be cause a problem with recoding?

I still have 'failure to sleep' issues going on after running VRD. Not just running the app, but burning a DVD or saving a TS file causes the issue. After closing VRD the computer won't sleep....takes a reboot to clear it up. I've took screen captures with Task Manager before and after, and the same Processes are running. Why it thinks its too busy to nod-off, I have no idea. It's always done this.

Am I correct?....If I take note of the bit rate in the 'completion dialog', after running a save or DVD Folder Burn in VRD, as long as the rate is 9.8 or less....I should be OK as far as being able to burn an actual DVD later??

I'm not sure the other option is good for me, as I save Hi-Def content as TS files to be streamed from a media server.

Again -- Thanks,
Chris

Edit: One other thing .... NERO 7 ShowTime & VRD won't run at the same time. Just in case that tells you something.
 
Last edited:

Dan203

Senior Developer
Staff member
Yes the problem seemed to be some sort of issue with recoding your file. It's possible it was sound related, but since the recode was unnecessary I figured we could just skip trouble shooting that for now. If you run into a file that needs to be recoded and have this problem we'll look into it more.

I have no idea what would cause the failure to sleep. VRD does not use any services and it very self contained, so if the process is gone from the task manager then it should have no further influence on your machine. That being said we do tap into your video and audio drivers while the program is running, so I guess it could be causing some sort of issue in one of those drivers which then prevents sleeping. Although we use published APIs for that, so if that's the case the problem is in the driver not VRD.

For the most part yes you can assume that if the final dialog shows a bitrate below 9.8Mbps then you're OK. However that's just an average so if it's very close to the limit you might still have problems if one scene jumps above that limit.

I don't know of anything in VRD that would prevent Nero ShowTime from running concurrently. Unless perhaps they are both tapping into the video or sound driver and your drivers don't allow that.

Dan
 

ccrider2

Member
Dan,

Same problem with another file, but checking the box "Allow non-complaint DVD settings", doesn't work.

Ideas?

Thanks,
Chris

File Name: D:\MyHDHomeRun2\The French Connection.tp
File Size: 3914780672 ( 3.65 GB )
Program Duration: 02:31:57.02
File Type: TS Stream
Encoding: MPEG2
Video stream Id: 81 (x51)
Encoding Dimensions: 720 x 480
Display Size: 720 x 480
Aspect Ratio: 4:3
Frame Rate: 29.97 FPS
Bit Rate: 3.120 Mbps
VBV_Buffer: 224 KB
Profile: Main@Main
Progressive: Prog or Int
Chroma: 4:2:0
Audio Format: 2.0
Audio Stream Id: AC3: 84 (x54)
Audio Bit Rate: 192 Kbps
Audio Sampling Rate: 48000 Hz
TS Mux Rate (bps): 3508034
 

Dan203

Senior Developer
Staff member
Not sure. Try this...

1) Use Tools->Trim & Copy to grab the first 100MB of the file.
2) Try authoring this new file and see if it has the same problem
3) If it does have the problem upload it to our FTP...

http://www.videoredo.net/msgBoard/showthread.php?t=15807

If you can get me a sample that I can use to recreate the problem then I can probably fix it for the next release.

Dan
 

ccrider2

Member
Dan,

No luck:
I ran another burn and took note of the scene where the failure occurred. I then tried to burn just that scene, the one after and the one before, but they each ran without issues. So I guess I'm at a loss as to what to do next.

Thank You,
Chris
 
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Dan203

Senior Developer
Staff member
OK first off you don't actually have to burn anything. So save your discs and just author the DVD to a folder.

Now open VideoReDo. Go to Help->Display VideoReDo.log->Clear log. Once the log is cleared reopen the original file and try authoring the DVD again. If it fails again immediately go to Help->Display VideoReDo.log->Display VideoReDo.log. Save the file somewhere convenient like you Desktop or My Documents folder, then email it to me at support @ videoredo.com with the subject "Log for thread 28735".

Dan
 

ccrider2

Member
OK first off you don't actually have to burn anything. So save your discs and just author the DVD to a folder.

Now open VideoReDo. Go to Help->Display VideoReDo.log->Clear log. Once the log is cleared reopen the original file and try authoring the DVD again. If it fails again immediately go to Help->Display VideoReDo.log->Display VideoReDo.log. Save the file somewhere convenient like you Desktop or My Documents folder, then email it to me at support @ videoredo.com with the subject "Log for thread 28735".

Dan
OK...I'll do that, probably tomorrow as currently recording the rest of the day. I do have a log handy that was cleared after VRD was restarted. I'll go ahead and mail that... perhaps that will help while I'm waiting for the machine to catch-up.
The log was generated while trying to save the same project file, with the 'Output options' set as I normally do for 4:3 content.

Video Options:
Aspect ratio: 16:9 - box checked 'Force 4:3 to pillar box'
Video cropping and sizing:
Maintain aspect ratio checked and "4" entered in 'top' position. (gets rid of vertical line that appears in most 4:3 content)

One other thing I've noticed.....If I open the same project file, remove all the 'cuts', then burn the whole file to a folder (using my choices for 'Output Options' as above) it works fine. As if the problem is being induced by doing the editing.

Also

If I do the same project:
4:3 ... raw (no output options)
or
16:9 (pillar box but no cropping)
It works fine.


I'll send the log file I have from the last attempt, now and when I get a chance to try the folder burn again.....if need be.

Thanks For Your Time,
Chris
 

Dan203

Senior Developer
Staff member
I got your log. It seems to be stalling at the very last cut, but there is no real indication as to why.

Do me a favor. Go to Tools->QuickStream Fix, load the same source file as the one causing problems, then click the enable filters button. Change the number of samples to 25 and rescan. Does it show any resolutions in the file other then 720x480?

Dan
 

ccrider2

Member
I got your log. It seems to be stalling at the very last cut, but there is no real indication as to why.

Do me a favor. Go to Tools->QuickStream Fix, load the same source file as the one causing problems, then click the enable filters button. Change the number of samples to 25 and rescan. Does it show any resolutions in the file other then 720x480?

Dan

Dan,

No...only 720x480

> stalling at the very last cut < Please forgive my ignorance, not trying to argue a point. I've got a total of 11 cuts with a total of 10 scenes.....It appears to be stopping at scene 4. How do you determine it was the last?

Thanks Much,
Chris

PS: I'm going to try this again (the folder burn) I just had an issue with the +5V power in the power supply....Shut the machine completely down and it wouldn't restart. Replaced w a spare...want to see if that makes any weird difference.

I'll get back with results,
Chris
 

Dan203

Senior Developer
Staff member
Please forgive my ignorance, not trying to argue a point. I've got a total of 11 cuts with a total of 10 scenes.....It appears to be stopping at scene 4. How do you determine it was the last?
Bad assumption. I saw the timing on the cut and assumed it was just the last one cutting off the end of an hour program. :eek:

Can you try one more test for me? Open the file, make your cuts and then save to a standard .mpg file. Reopen that file and then author to DVD with your cropping. Does it still fail? Does it fail during the initial .mpg output? Or during the DVD recode?

Dan
 

ccrider2

Member
Can you try one more test for me? Open the file, make your cuts and then save to a standard .mpg file. Reopen that file and then author to DVD with your cropping. Does it still fail? Does it fail during the initial .mpg output? Or during the DVD recode?

Dan
Dan,
No problems.

Also worked when saving the Project as a .ts before doing the folder burn, if that says anything.

Thanks,
Chris
 

Dan203

Senior Developer
Staff member
So the problem seems to be some sort of combination of both editing and recoding. I'll run a few tests on my end and see if I can recreate this on anything. If I can then I'll figure it out and fix it. If not then the only way I'm going to be able to fix this is if you can get me a file that reproduces the problem. I'll let you know where I land.

Dan
 

ccrider2

Member
So the problem seems to be some sort of combination of both editing and recoding. I'll run a few tests on my end and see if I can recreate this on anything. If I can then I'll figure it out and fix it. If not then the only way I'm going to be able to fix this is if you can get me a file that reproduces the problem. I'll let you know where I land.

Dan
Dan,
Just to update you as to my issue:

-Burned 13 DVD folders, all movies except one health show w/ 8 episodes super-compressed to a DL folder ...... no issues.
-3 others had the issue, none of the last few recorded had a problem.
-15 of the 16 total were movies all recorded on the same channel.

So I guess....It seems to have stopped for now, just as mysteriously as it started.

Ya Got Me! :confused:

Thanks For Your Time,
Chris
 

Dan203

Senior Developer
Staff member
Perhaps there was some encoding error in those original files that were causing the stall. I ran test on my end and never could duplicate the problem, so it had to be something file specific. If you run into this again then maybe I can get you to send me one of the problem files burned onto a data DVD or something so that I can try to recreate the problem on my end. If I can recreate it in my debug build I should be able to see where it's stalling.

Dan
 
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