Wrong audio selected using a project file

sheppy99

New member
I use VRD to open a VPRJ file created by comskip and this latest release picks the wrong audio. I've turned off "ignore transport stream maps" which didn't change anything. Opening the WTV directly does give audio so there is a problem with the VPRJ. The streams found in the selection box are:
1--AAC Audio (LOAS) (ita), PID x26A
2--AAC Audio (LOAS) (eng), PID x26B
3--AC3 Audio (eng), PID x26D

Stream 2 is selected via VRD and Stream 3 is the wanted one.
Is it a VPRJ contents problem or a VRD problem? It works fine with 4.20.6.611
The VPRJ contents are below.

<Version>2
<Filename>D:\Video, TV etc\test_file.wtv
<MPEG Stream Type>4
<Cut>0:90400000
<Cut>7295200000:9546400000
<Cut>12896000000:15042800000
<Cut>24483200000:28178000000
<SceneMarker 0>90400000
<SceneMarker 1>7294800000
<SceneMarker 2>7596400000
 

Dan203

Senior Developer
Staff member
The format of that VPRJ is out of date and will not work in newer versions of VideoReDo. We had to change the format significantly when we added support for multiple audio streams. Unfortunately this is really a comskip problem, not a VideoReDo problem, so there isn't anything we can do to fix it.

Dan
 

sheppy99

New member
Don't suppose you have any documentation on the new format that I can pass on to the writer or comskip?
What version did the change happen from?
 

Danr

Administrator
Staff member
Don't suppose you have any documentation on the new format that I can pass on to the writer or comskip?
What version did the change happen from?
The comskip project file uses a very old format dating back to Version 1 of VideoReDo. We no longer use it internally, but do support it as a courtesy for users who use comskip.

That file format was designed long before we implemented subtitles or multiple audio stream. The best solution would be for the comskip folks to support our most current VPRJ format which is XML-based.

Are you running multi-audio mode or single audio? Shift+Tools>Option>#70 (0=single audio, 1 = multi-audio).
 

sheppy99

New member
The sound is already set at 0, setting it to 1 doesn't change anything.
Does this mean that VRD should work with the old format VPRJ and something has gone wrong compatibility wise between 611 & 629?
I've discovered a mistake in my last post. I meant to say:
"Do you have any documentation on the current VPRJ format I can pass on to the writer of comskip?"
Looking at a new format VPRJ file in notepad there seems to be a lot more detail, is all of this needed or can it be simplified with just the cuts listed in it?
 

MrVideo

Active member
Don't know of any. The best example of what an XML file looks like is to do an edit job on a file and send the XML file to them.

It should contain everything that is needed by them to figure it out.
 

sheppy99

New member
OK, I'll have a play, pity about the change, that new XML file has way more detail than what is needed to chop out a few ads
 

MrVideo

Active member
The writers of comskip should have purchased a license so that they can stay up-to-date with any changes that are introduced into the product.

As I've said in the past, except for one case type, I can find the break locations faster than comskip or VRD's own ad detection scans. The exception are captures containing telescope breaks that are 10 seconds, or less (2, 5 or 10 are the standard). For those I let VRD look for them.

But, I can throw files from The CW network at comskip, or VRD, and can say with certainty that both will miss the end of some commercial breaks. Why? Because at least once during a show, there will be at most 1 or 2 black frames after the break and no break in the audio. Those will get by auto detection every time. But they will not get past the eyeball at anytime.

Dragging the coarse curser along the timeline is SOOO much faster than automatic ad detection. We are able to process the images on the screen and know what is program and what is commercial break material. Also, based on where breaks are normally placed, I can usually jump the timeline and land right in a commercial break.

But, that's just me. :D
 

Dan203

Senior Developer
Staff member
Actually you're right that the majority of programs follow a pattern for commercial break placement and duration, and each station uses a their own pattern. We actually have a commercial client that uses VRD to do cutting for syndication and they use templates like this to set the cut points and it's perfectly accurate. However the files they use start perfectly at the start of the program. With DVR padding and the weird scheduling tricks used for broadcast this trick isn't quite as useful for consumer recordings.

Dan
 

MrVideo

Active member
The pattern to which I speak, for network shows, even syndication, is not accurate as to when a break would start. That would confine the producers of a drama to produce a show where segment 1 was always 8:35 in length, for example. I reality, that doesn't happen.

What does happen is that there are normally 5 commercial breaks within a one hour show, where the 3rd break will pretty much land such that the halfway point of a show will be within that 3rd break.

There are some shows that do not have five breaks spread out like that. But, those shows will have that same pattern week after week.

Other exceptions are premieres, whereby they want to keep you tuned to the new series. So, the first segment can be twice as long as normal, squeezing all of the other breaks to shifted locations.

But, as pointed out, it can pretty much be predictable, based upon the network showing it.

A minor nit though, stations have no control over where the breaks are. That is determined by the network or the syndicator. The only things they control are locally produced, i.e., news, for example.

I do not watch off-net syndicated shows, especially older ones. Why? Because the old ones only had four breaks and ran over 5 minutes longer than today's hour shows. That results in material being trimmed and the location of commercial break changed. The only way to view old shows is via DVD/Blu-ray, where the original, uncut, master is used.

BTW, your template mention is actually provided to stations. For example, the stations got a template as to where the barter spots would be and where local beaks would be for the series that they purchased. Obviously exact lengths of the breaks were not given in the template, as those lengths changed from week-to-week. But, right before a show was fed, for example Legend of the Seeker, the complete rundown would be provided that listed all of the segment lengths and all of the barter commercials, with the exact start of the local breaks listed, and the length.

Because most stations are automated (not my market it seems), they use the rundown to program their automation as to when the show segments will be played, including the barter commercials (which are considered to be program content) and where their local commercials will be played. Makes for seamless integration of program and local commercials. It can be done for network programing as well, since affiliates do get a rundown as to where the local breaks will be for non-live programming.

The world of broadcasting can be really neat. There are tons of things that the general public never sees, or even has a concept of, considering that many couldn't program their VCR. :D
 
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Dan203

Senior Developer
Staff member
Actually I think the templates they use are per show, not per station like I originally said. But they are hard coded templates, so the segments are in fact identical in length from one episode to the next. The producers must realize this and edit the show to fit the blocks.

Dan
 

MrVideo

Active member
Actually I think the templates they use are per show, not per station like I originally said. But they are hard coded templates, so the segments are in fact identical in length from one episode to the next. The producers must realize this and edit the show to fit the blocks.
Yes, per show. Network shows tend to bounce around a lot for total length. To see an example of that, go to:

http://vidiot.com/Ringer/quickref1.html

There you will see The CW is inconsistant from week to week. If that show ever makes syndication, it will be tough. This show, from Fox, is more consistant:

http://vidiot.com/TerraNova/quickref1.html

But it too has differences from week-to-week.

One hour syndicated shows normally run 58:50. Legend of the Seeker, for example, pretty much had program content, when tightly edited down, of 43:19. the remaing 15:31 was barter spots and local commercials (and black padding). The remaining 1:10 at the end of a show was for local commercial(s) and the :10 station ID. This is where those templates are really used.

What really sucks, especially with the CW, which has the shortest program content of all the major OTA networks, is that they can have breaks that are longer than program segments.
 

Danr

Administrator
Staff member
The sound is already set at 0, setting it to 1 doesn't change anything.
Does this mean that VRD should work with the old format VPRJ and something has gone wrong compatibility wise between 611 & 629?
I've discovered a mistake in my last post. I meant to say:
"Do you have any documentation on the current VPRJ format I can pass on to the writer of comskip?"
Looking at a new format VPRJ file in notepad there seems to be a lot more detail, is all of this needed or can it be simplified with just the cuts listed in it?
1) If you set the mutli-audio to 1 aren't you getting all 3 audio streams in the output?

2) If you're previewing after opening the comskip vprj file, can't you simply use tools>Select stream?

3) If you prefer the AC3 sound track, did you set the preferred audio to AC3 on the T>O>general page?
 

sheppy99

New member
Very true Mr V, I too could edit the adverts better than an auto program but I can't do it whilst watching another program / whilst sleeping / whilst out doing other things ;-)
Broadcast TV around here is unwatchable without ad skipping of some sort or another!
 
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sheppy99

New member
DanR,

question 1) With multi-audio 1 I get - "Video Program stream not found." when loading the VPRJ for 2 of my 3 test files, and "No audio stream found" on the 3rd one, so I can't test this.

question 2)If I turn multi audio off, I can then open the "No audio stream found" file and select the correct audio.

question 3)I did but I still can't open the VPRJ's
 
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MrVideo

Active member
First off, none of the three questions are questions. They are statements.

Second, if you are still trying to use the comskip created project file, don't. You will get errors.

Turn back on the multi-audio support, restart VRD and then open the file you want to edit. Run the ad detection that VRD has. Until the authors of comskip fix it, that program is 100% useless. You'll either have to hand edit or use VRD's ad detection.

I too have a lot of programs to deal with, but manage just fine hand editing most of them and using ad detection for those special few.
 

Dan203

Senior Developer
Staff member
MrVideo is correct. The project files created by Comskip are such an old format we can't guarantee they'll work even with multi-audio turned off. We have legacy support for the actual format in VRD so it will attempt to open them, but we have not tested it in so long we can not guarantee it will actually work and we do not have time to invest in fixing whatever is wrong with this old, outdated, format.

Dan
 

sheppy99

New member
Dan,
thanks for the reply. To move to the new format what is required in the file? I have saved one and there is a lot of info in there - what is needed?
I posted on the comskip board about the problems and the reply was:
"I can change the format but not to include everything videoredo generates.
Could someone list the exact lines that need to be added for what input format?"
 
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