Windows 10 Nov 2019 Update makes me jittery

Otter

Member
I've been recording with a HD-PVR2 for years and editing with VRD versions/releases with overall great results. All of the sudden a week ago, all my recently encoded files started jittering every few frames during playback. It was happening on all 8 computers in the house whether, AMD, Intel or nVidia graphics. Eight units with different graphics and the same problem made me look at the recording steps.
As I'm always trying the latest VRD beta and recently switched to using NVEnc, I looked there first (sorry Dan). Nothing I did made any difference.

Then focused on the HD-PVR2 and it's software - Yup, the original recordings had the jitters. Did lots of test recordings with different settings, but no solutions found - still jittered on whichever machine I played it back on.

After many hours and days of troubleshooting on the various Win 10 machines, My wife played a jittery file on her old 10" android tablet - no jitters!.
Went back to my recording machine (nVidia) and finally found the hardware IVTC processing was turned on in the driver settings.
I've always kept IVTC off as what I record is progressive or hybrid - never from telecined sources. When I upgrade drivers, I always choose "maintain settings" and go thru them after the install.

A check of the other Nvidia, Intel and AMD graphics machines showed all had HW IVTC turned back on. Jitters stopped with each machine after IVTC was turned back off.
Upshot is that all computers in the house had gotten the Windows 10 "Nov 2019 Update" in the last week. Microsoft had clean installed every graphics driver using basic defaults - including HW IVTC being turned on.

So, yet another way for Windows 10 Updates to muck up your machine
 

jgrassi

Member
Hi Otter, please help me understand better what is going on with your situation. With my machines that I have manually installed nVidia's software package on, now 441.12, MS never updates or messes with the video drivers. In fact recently I had accidently found just the opposite case; I assumed MS was updating my video drivers and found that I was over 20 versions behind in rev level which ultimately caused compatibility issues with VRD. So please help me understand exactly what video drivers are being updated. Mine certainly aren't and I would like to know for my own education what is happening on your machines. Also, where is the IVTC setting? Again I'm curious. Side comment, for whatever reason, I have found that ever since my computers received the Nov 2019 update, they have been working notably faster. Something in that update helped performance significantly. Again, just trying to understand and learn, not questioning your situation. Thanks.
 

Otter

Member
What I'm describing is something that the Win10 Nov Update did. I was trying to show how confounding it can be to for STAFF to track down a problem when multiple hardware and software systems are involved. Posting a problem here, even with log dumps or a sample may not be enough to cover everything that happens from recording to finish.

In my case, a problem cropped up - jitter. First suspect was VRD 810 beta I'd just started to use. After testing, tweaking and reverting, it appeared VRD was not the problem. I had also just updated my scheduling/recording software to a new version - again more testing/tweaking to eliminate that.
I had not considered a video driver problem, because the jitter was happening on playback with 8 machines using 3 different types of graphics GPU/driver.

Some computers in my house have Intel graphics, some AMD and the rest nVidia cards. When I update video drivers by choice, there is always a option to "keep current settings" - including the setting to turn off doing a "inverse telecine" using the GPU. All my recording source is either 59fps 720p or 1080 29fps hybrid interlaced. There is no reason or way to IVTC the frames to an artificial 24fps rate without dropping and jerking. IVTC is a throwback anyway to when programs were shot with film cameras and not for modern digitally shot sources.

Twice yearly, Microsoft forces a new version of Win10 on us and calls it an "Update", but it is really a complete new Windows. Your existing system is copied to a folder named "Windows.old", then the new version is installed and MS attempts to reproduce all your old environment in the new Windows 10 - sometimes it screws up. Every "Update" has issues - A few people lose all their data, sound doesn't work, no wifi, endless reboots, etc. Not everyone, but enough to fill the Microsoft forums with complaints.

I my case, everything seemed to go ok and work after v1909 installed on all the units. As I said above, what I finally tracked it down to was that as part of the Update, MS had replaced all my Intel, AMD or nVidia graphics drivers with their own "MS approved" versions and defaulted all the existing settings.
Now whichever machine I played video on was forcing IVTC and converting to 24fps with very jittery results. It even was effecting the preview in VideoRedo when I was trying to edit. Since I had always kept HW IVTC off and not turned it on, that was about the last thing I thought of.

I now have all my machines back to normal with the latest stable drivers from the various makers websites. Have tracked down the "IVTC" or "Film Mode" settings in each type of driver and made sure they are off for all types. Life and video is good - at least until "Spring 2020 Update" arrives.

jgrassi
With early versions of Win10, there was an option to not automatically update drivers, but it's been gone for a while. Now your drivers are under Microsoft's control (unless you have Win10 PRO or hack registry) It's also done in background, so you may not even know something was changed.

As of today, the latest non-beta nVidia driver is v441.41. When you update make sure you get the driver type that matches your system. There are separate desktop card and mobile chipset drivers. Also open your nVidia Control Panel System Information - go to Help - System Information and check your current driver type - will either be "Standard" driver and "DCH" driver. You need to download the same type of new driver.

While you're in the nVidia Control, go to the left side menu - find "Video" - "Adjust video image settings" - uncheck the "Use inverse telecine" box
 

jgrassi

Member
Ok, thanks for the explanation. I understood your original issue, just was curious as to how MS updated your video drivers. You may have answered that question with one phrase in your response; "...unless you have Win10 Pro." I AM running Win 10 Pro on all of my machines so THAT may be the reason Windows has never replaced my video drivers with their own. Thanks for the reply and also what IVTC is and where to find it.

EDIT: Ok, I just checked my nVidia control panel and inverse telecine was checked already! Should it really be unchecked? I am not having issues now so I tend to want to leave the status quo. But curious what the impact of this is. I admit I am not as savvy as you are wrt the minutiae of certain video settings.
 
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Otter

Member
What I meant, was that Win 10 by default decides when you need a driver update & just does it. Usually the MS mandatory driver version is not the latest, so if you keep updating something like a graphics driver from the vendor website, you will always be ahead of MS, so not get their older driver.

Windows 10 Pro has a Group Policy feature for the admin of multiple systems to all have the same settings. Win Home does not.
GP still has to be configured to block driver updates though.
With Home, you have to find some settings buried in Control Panel Devices, or run a MS utility "wushowhide.diagcab" or hack some registry settings.

I uncheck IVTC, because I never work with any videos that are telecined. It is a system that takes film shot at 24fps and converts it to 29.97fps/59.97fps for tv using a repeated pattern of duplicated frames - usually aabbbccddd - each letter standing for a single frame. IVTC trys to get it back to 24fps by deleting frames it expects to be duplicates based on the "pattern" Same applies for UK material, but different frame rates.
If I have a video that is 59.97 fps progressive, each frame is unique and there is no pattern of repeated frames.
Hardware IVTC may realize that, or just drop frames according to a fictional pattern and make a jittery mess.
So, I leave it off.
 
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