What format will save EIA 608 captions besides TS?

atc98092

New member
I switched to J River for my OTA recording to replace Windows Media Center. It is working great, and saves the recording in the TS format, which I then use VideoReDo to remove commercials. I've been saving them into the same container (TS), but I have a problem with my Roku players. They play just fine, but I can't FF, rewind or resume from a TS container. No idea why, nor does the Roku programmer that works on their media player. If I save the recording to MKV, all trick play functions are available, but the EIA-608 caption tracks are not saved. I've also tried the MP4 container, but it appears that Roku players don't like MPEG2 video in an MP4 container. Even running FFMPEG from the command line in pure copy mode leaves the captions behind.

So, am I stuck with the TS container? I really don't want to change the codecs used, as that adds significantly more time to my commercial removal. If I leave the video and audio intact, it only takes about 45 seconds to save the edited video. Changing the video codec takes over 6 minutes for a 22 minute TV episode.
 

jmc

Active member
If you are talking about "Closed Captions" then you can extract them and place them in the MKV container.
VRD lists them as "DVD 608". CC stays in h264.mp4 files also.

I know nothing at all about "Roku".
 

atc98092

New member
I was hoping that I could find a one step process that doesn't require extracting and merging. I did test one of my TS containers and re-saved it into the MP4 container with H.264 video. It retained the captions, but took 7 times longer to save, since it was converting the video. That's s significant increase if processing time, especially for recorded movies that are much longer than a 30 minute TV episode.

It doesn't appear that I can save the edited file with the original MPEG-2 video and EIA-608 captions track into any container other than TS.
 

musicvid

Member
TS is an acquisition and storage format, not a delivery format. TS stands for Transport Stream.
Your players want a Program Stream such as mpg or mp4, and yes they support captioning.
 

atc98092

New member
Yeah, I didn't write that well. I understand TS is just the container. By format, I guess I was simply referring to the available file save options within VideoReDo. Something that uses a container other than TS that would retain the embedded EIA-608 captions and not require transcoding the video. I would have thought that the MKV profile would work, but it always removes the captions when I've tried that.
 

cp2

Member
I appreciate that you would prefer a one step process but if you create a TS file and then use something like mkvtools to quickly convert it into a mkv file do the captions transfer across successfully?
 

atc98092

New member
I hadn't tried that one, so I'll give it a shot. Two steps is acceptable if I don't have to transcode, as that would add too much time to the process.
 

Fentropic

Member
I switched to J River for my OTA recording to replace Windows Media Center. It is working great, and saves the recording in the TS format, which I then use VideoReDo to remove commercials. I've been saving them into the same container (TS), but I have a problem with my Roku players. They play just fine, but I can't FF, rewind or resume from a TS container. No idea why, nor does the Roku programmer that works on their media player. If I save the recording to MKV, all trick play functions are available, but the EIA-608 caption tracks are not saved. I've also tried the MP4 container, but it appears that Roku players don't like MPEG2 video in an MP4 container. Even running FFMPEG from the command line in pure copy mode leaves the captions behind.

So, am I stuck with the TS container? I really don't want to change the codecs used, as that adds significantly more time to my commercial removal. If I leave the video and audio intact, it only takes about 45 seconds to save the edited video. Changing the video codec takes over 6 minutes for a 22 minute TV episode.
Why don'y you just save them as an mpg Program Stream that preserves CC while just remuxing the container from mpeg2 TS to mpeg2 PS?
Use the default Profile: Program Stream, Codec: Match Source, Container: Program Stream, Output Mode: Intelligent
 

atc98092

New member
Roku players don't support the PS container, so to eliminate the need for transcoding/muxing they need to be in TS, MKV, MOV or MP4 containers. I just tried using mkvtools and the captions are gone. Looks like I'm stuck with the TS container and don't get to have trick play.
 

musicvid

Member
Your mpeg-2 video can be muxed to an .mpg Program Stream without re-encoding or loss, save for the QSF frames, which can be few or many with broadcast recordings. I do this almost every week with certain teevee specials. Most normal stuff ends up MP4, though.

If your Roku doesn't support MPEG-2 program streams, I would get a different media server or transcode to MP4. I know of no third options, unfortunately.
 

atc98092

New member
Yeah, it's a Roku limitation. I already have replaced them on my two main TVs with Nvidia Shield players, and that plays everything. But I have others that can't justify such an expensive player. So, I'll just live with the TS container.
 
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