varying Fast Frame Copy behavior with Tivo files

christhetivoguy

New member
Hi, I am a new user. Just purchased the VideoReDo TVSuite package yesterday! :) I loaded it onto a dedicated PC with Tivo Desktop and TVSuite. Everything worked right away. :D

I read through some of the other threads, like this
http://www.videoredo.net/msgBoard/showthread.php?t=29675&highlight=fast+frame+copy
It appears to be a similar type of issue, but not quite the same.

So here is my issue:
For some Tivo files, the TVSuite processing rate is very fast - a matter of minutes. Then for others it is a matter of hours. For my purposes, I am running the Tivo in SD mode, and I am attempting to convert Tivo files that are less than 4.3 GB. Here are a couple real-world scenarios for me so far.

Program 1:
Tivo set to "Basic Quality" (lowest quality) in SD mode
program length/duration is 2:00 (hours/minutes)
Tivo file size: 1.492 GB
Content: TCM movie (minus introductions and no commercials)
------------------------------------------
--> TVSuite message: "Fast Frame Copy"
--> Processing time a matter of minutes
--> Output: VOB directory similar size to Tivo file (as expected)


Program 2:
Tivo set to "Medium Quality" (second-lowest quality) in SD mode
program length/duration is 1:45 (hours/minutes)
Tivo file size: 3.013 GB
Content: TCM movie (minus introductions and no commercials)
------------------------------------------
--> TVSuite message: "Recoding Output"
--> processing time a matter of hours
--> Output: program wants to fill up an entire single layer DVD with VOB directory (much larger than Tivo file, not expected)


So the TVSuite worked in two different ways without any adjustments by me. In fact, these were two consecutive conversions. I am wondering if there might be any obvious reasons why this happened, and if it might be possible to use the "Fast Frame Copy" on all Tivo files under 4 GB. (I don't see any obvious reason for it to be recoding and filling up a DVD)

Thanks
Chris
 
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Dan203

Senior Developer
Staff member
The reason is the resolution. TiVo uses different resolutions for different qualities. Only some are DVD compliant.

If you check the box at the bottom that says "Allow non-compliant DVD settings" it will do a fast frame copy on all of your TiVo files. While the resulting DVD is not technically DVD compliant it should play fine in most DVD players. Give it a try and see how it works in your player. If it works OK then you can save yourself a lot of extra time.

Dan
 

Anole

Moderator
Some years ago, when I was able to get the digital content off the hard drive of my Dish Network PVR, I did exactly what Dan describes.
They used 544x480 for SD, and I made my DVDs that way.
Discs played fine in everything.

Oddly, some 640x480 material didn't work at all.
Other resolutions used were 720x480 (actual DVD spec) which worked fine,
and something around 702x480 (if memory serves), and it was okay, too.

You can load your video into VRD and press Ctrl-L to get the info on actual resolution.
Alternatively, load it into the free program MediaInfo and have a look at all the specs. :)
 
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christhetivoguy

New member
Hi Dan, thanks. That was quick. You are both right.

I just tried that out with my Series 4 Tivo (Premier) running in SD mode and here is what I got:

1) Basic Quality: Lowest quality not even perceptible on a decent older style CRT TV. This hasn't bothered my for years. However it is obvious on my laptop computer and therefore perhaps would also be obvious on newer full-size LCD or Plasma screens. Therefore Tivo "Basic Quality" is probably not the best choice for making DVDs going into the future. This mode appears to be fully "standards compliant" for the files I have inspected. No need to accept non-compliant settings.

2) Medium Quality: Noticable improvement over Basic Quality. Nice compromise between movie length and single layer DVDs. Not fully standards-compliant though.

3) High Quality: For some shorter materials, this may be a nice compromise between length and single layer DVDs. Not fully standards-compliant though.

4) Best Quality: Size will generally be too large to put an entire movie onto a single layer DVD. This mode appears to be fully "standards compliant" for the files I have inspected. No need to accept non-compliant settings.

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Therefore it looks like the "Accept non-compliant settings" option will save the day for me. As a bonus, it is in a convenient place and super-easy to use! :)

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Anole, here are the resolutions for my Tivo quality settings (in SD mode). This is only representative of a small sample, resolutions "may" vary.

1) Basic Quality = 352 x 480
2) Medium Quality = 480 x 480
3) High Quality = 480 x 480
4) Best Quality = 720 x 480

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P.S. As an aside, I have averaged a few Tivo files for each of the quality settings. I have arrived at a representative quotient which seems to be somewhat consistent for each setting (GB in size / Hours in duration). (Error margin for quotient seems to be somewhere around +/- 0.1)

1) Basic Quality = ~0.78
2) Medium Quality = ~1.75
3) High Quality = ~2.36
4) Best Quality = ~3.10

Thanks everyone
Chris
 
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phd

Super Moderator
FYI.

I also have a Tivo and mainly record SD.

I was previously using the Premiere without a cable card since my provider still had analog enabled. They have switched all channels to digital now forcing me to install a cable card.

Original recording on SD channels were at 480 like you see. Since the cable card installation, resolutions are now at 704.
 

christhetivoguy

New member
FYI.

I also have a Tivo and mainly record SD.

I was previously using the Premiere without a cable card since my provider still had analog enabled. They have switched all channels to digital now forcing me to install a cable card.

Original recording on SD channels were at 480 like you see. Since the cable card installation, resolutions are now at 704.
Hi Pat, thanks for popping in. How big is an average 2-hour movie on Tivo in HD? I am assuming you are using either dual-layer DVDs or Blu-ray recordable discs at this point??
 

phd

Super Moderator
The size of the HD files would depend on your cable provider and the streams they transmit.

I record everything in SD for smaller file size on standard SD DVDs and quicker file transfers. The quality is "good enough" for me.

Dan203 could probably provide more info re: HD files.

With the SD files, a 1 1/2 hour Saturday Night Live file dropped from about 2.5GB to 1.6-1.8GB. The viewing quality OOB looks better to me also in spite of the file size reduction.
 

Dan203

Senior Developer
Staff member
The Series 3, TiVoHD and Premiere units all record digital channels as-is. Which means that their resolution and bitrate are determined by your cable company not the TiVo itself. Only analog channels are encoded by the TiVo and adhere to the resolution/bitrate combinations you mentioned above.

That being said HD files are always going to require a full recode to save to DVD, so the resolution and bitrate for the final DVD is actually decided in VideoReDo.

Dan
 

Karen0302

New member
Allow Non-compliant settings

Could someone please tell me where the option to allow non-compliant seetings? Thanks!

Karen
 

ToppyMPS

Member
Could someone please tell me where the option to allow non-compliant seetings? Thanks!

Karen
If you mean what Dan203 mentioned in post 2 of this thread.

Open VRD > add a file,edit as required > create DVD (button), new window opens, down the bottom left hand corner you'll see a check box "Accept non-compliant DVD settings".
 
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