Teletext and subtitle support?

#1
Hi all

I'm a bit confused about the subtitle capabilities in VideoReDo TVSuite v4 :confused:

If you look at the full comparison between TVSuite and Plus, one of the features are: Teletext and subtitle support

I have a Windows 7 Media Center (.wtv file) recording which I want to cut and convert to avi format. I know the file contains both subtitle in danish and teletext... but it seems to me that VideoReDo TVSuite v4 is not able to handle either teletext or subtitles?

Where are the teletext and subtitle features in VideoReDo TVSuite v4?
 

Dan203

Senior Developer
Staff member
#2
At this time we only support Teletext when stored in the DVB format. Unfortunately Microsoft does not use the DVB format to store Teletext in WTV files. They use a proprietary format which we have not yet been able to decipher. It's something we plan to look at in the future, but it's low priority. Now they do use the standard DVB format for subtitles, so those we are able to support. However the only output format which supports them is TS so you'll have to save your edited WTV files to TS for the subtitles to be preserved.

Teletext/subtitle support in VRD is currently limited to basic preservation during editing. We cannot convert them or save them to any format which does not support them natively. Essentially this means that teletext/subtitle support is limited to TS files. As mentioned above we can read subtitles from WTV files, but due to a limitation in the MS WTV writer we can't actually save the subtitles back to a WTV file in a format that will actually play in MCE. (the subtitles are there, but are not selectable in MCE so they're basically useless) We've contacted a "friend" and MS who can hopefully help us work around this limitation in the future, but for now your only real viable option for preserving subtitles is to save a TS.

Dan
 
#3
Hi,

I'm also testing and thinking to upgrade to TVSuite V4 but basically only reason to do this would be to be able to find a way to play recorded WTV files with subtitles in another place than Windows 7 Media center. It might be possible if I can get this to a TS file and from what I can understand from above answer is that it's possible to save a WTV file to a TS but when I do so I don't get the subtitles. I can't either find any indication that there is a subtitle when I open the file in VRD. Is there an insruction how to transfer a file to TS keepint the subtitles that is available in Windows media center?
 
#4
Hi dejvid,

According to Dan's reply, VideoReDo TVSuite v4 can only handle subtitles in .ts format.

I've been searching for a tool that can convert .wtv to .ts format. The only promising converter tool I found is MC-TVConverter. Unfortunately it only handles subtitles in NTSC (e.g. recordings from US or Canada). MC-TVConverter uses CCExtractor to extract the subtitles and the developer has not implemented the feature to extract subtitles from recordings from Europe (my location).

As Dan wrote, subtitles in wtv format has low priority... Perhaps VideoReDo should contact CCExtractor to get started with subtitles in wtv format :)
 

Dan203

Senior Developer
Staff member
#5
Actually that's not right. If you open a WTV with DVB subtitles and save to a TS file then the subtitles will be saved in the TS file. However Teletext is what's not supported in WTV at all.

Basically there are two sides to VideoReDo, input and output. On the input side we support DVB subtitles and Teletext in TS files but only DVB subtitles in WTV. On the output side both formats are only retained when saving to TS.*

Dan

* Technically DVB subs are actually saved to WTV output as well, but due to a bug in the MS code we use to create WTV files the subtitles will not be selectable in MCE when playing a VideoReDo created WTV file so they're basically useless. (neither will multiple audio streams due to the same bug) Although they are saved well enough that if you opened a VRD created WTV file in VRD again and saved to TS they would still be retained in the TS file.

Dan
 
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#6
Actually that's not right. If you open a WTV with DVB subtitles and save to a TS file then the subtitles will be saved in the TS file. However Teletext is what's not supported in WTV at all.
Thank you for the quick reply Dan. I’ve tried to save my .wtv file as .ts with VideoReDo TVSuite version 4. When editing the .ts file, no subtitles are available in VideoReDo. I also tried to open the file using VLC player - it can't find any subtitles either.

The recording is saved using DVB-T and it contains both subtitles and teletext.
Here is the video information from VideoReDo:

File:
Name : C:\Users\Public\Recorded TV\Anne fra Grønnebakken - den fortsatte historie (9-10)_TV 2 (Syd)_2010_12_26_12_03_00.wtv
Size : 4.451 GB
Duration : 01:36:51.18
Mux type : WTV

Video:
Encoding : MPEG2
VideoStreamID : x22E
Frame rate : 25.00 fps
Encoding size : 704 x 576
Display dimensions : 704 x 576
Aspect ratio : 16:9
Header bit rate : 15.000 Mbps
VBV buffer : 224 KBytes
Profile : Main@Main
Progressive : Prog or Int
Chroma : 4:2:0
Bit rate : 5.882 Mbps

Audio Stream: 1 (Primary)
Codec : MPEG
MPEGLayer : Layer 2
Channels : 2.0
Language : dan
PID : x22D
PES Stream Id : xC0
Bit rate : 256 Kbps
Sampling rate : 48000
Sample size : 16 bits
 

Dan203

Senior Developer
Staff member
#7
Hold Shift and click Tools->Options. In the list look for one called "Enable closed captioning and subtitle support" and make sure it's set to true. For some reason the default value of this option got set to false in the most recent release.

Dan
 
#8
Hold Shift and click Tools->Options. In the list look for one called "Enable closed captioning and subtitle support" and make sure it's set to true. For some reason the default value of this option got set to false in the most recent release.
You were right, "Enable closed captioning and subtitle support" was set to false.
When set to true, I was able to select subtitles in my .wtc recording :D

Also subtitles are preserved when saving the recording to .ts format.
Now I just need to find a way to create a DVD from my .ts file.

Thank you Dan for all the quick help!
 
#9
Hi Both,

Thanks very much for answers and great you solved your problems Hojgaard!
How do I know if my wtv recordings are teletext or DVB?
I live in Sweden and record in WMC 7 with a FireDtv. I suppose this is in PAL.
It has defenitly some kind of subtitles inside WMC 7 at least.
Is there any way to get to see the subtitles on a DVD, or on a media streamer etc?
I have searched but not been able to find a solution.
As I said the recorded files are pretty much useless for me in this case if I can't play them with subtitles...
A ts file I could potentially play with Xtreamer but then I need a way to convert the wfv files to ts and keep subtitles alt. extract the subtitles from the wtv.

Thanks again for help!
 
#10
Hi dejvid

I live in Sweden and record in WMC 7 with a FireDtv. I suppose this is in PAL.
Yes, Sweden uses PAL.

Is there any way to get to see the subtitles on a DVD, or on a media streamer etc?
I have searched but not been able to find a solution.
I've been searching for the same thing. In the end, I would like to create a DVD with my recording including subtitles.

Is there any way to get to see the subtitles on a DVD, or on a media streamer etc.?
One of the most promising tools I've found is ConvertXtoDVD. The tool can convert a .ts file to DVD (not .wtv file). I successfully created a DVD from a .ts file using the tool but I had problems with the colors of the subtitles.
 
#11
Hi Hojgaard,

Thanks, but how did you manage to go to ts from wtv without loosing subtitles?

If I only get a .ts file with subtitles I guess I could play this with my Xtreamer and I don't even need to burn a DVD.
 
#14
Which VideoReDo version?
And how did you do it?
When I try I don't get any subtitles, even if they are there in WMC7
I use VideoReDo TVSuite V4 Beta Build 610. To enable subtitles in that version I had to do like Dan explained:

Hold Shift and click Tools->Options. In the list look for one called "Enable closed captioning and subtitle support" and make sure it's set to true. For some reason the default value of this option got set to false in the most recent release.
Next I opened my .wtv file, and saved it as .ts format in VideoReDo.
That's it :)
 

IRa

New member
#15
I've been searching for the same thing. In the end, I would like to create a DVD with my recording including subtitles.
You can use ProjectX + DVDAuthorGui (possibility to adjust subtitle colours) to author the DVD and then burn the DVD with normal burning software. This what I have using for years (and waiting for years the day when VRD can do the same)
 

Dan203

Senior Developer
Staff member
#16
Once you enable the subtitle option you can tell if there are subtitles in the source WTV file by opening it in VideoReDo and hitting Ctrl+L. If it shows subtitle information in that dialog then it has DVB subtitles which we support. If not then the subtitles must be Teletext, which we don't.

Dan
 
#17
Once you enable the subtitle option you can tell if there are subtitles in the source WTV file by opening it in VideoReDo and hitting Ctrl+L. If it shows subtitle information in that dialog then it has DVB subtitles which we support. If not then the subtitles must be Teletext, which we don't.

Dan
Subtitle option enabled but I don't see any information about subtitles when hitting Ctrl+L so I guess it won't work then. This is what I get as an example:

File:
Name D:\Recorded TV\Redigerade\Arn\Arn_TV4_2010_03_22_19_55_00 (Avsnitt 1).wtv
Size 2.677 GB
Duration 01:09:58.06
Mux type WTV

Video:
Encoding MPEG2 VideoStreamID x226
Frame rate 25.00 fps Encoding size 720 x 576
Aspect ratio 16:9 Header bit rate 15.000 Mbps
VBV buffer 224 KBytes Profile Main@Main
Progressive Prog or Int Chroma 4:2:0
Bit rate 4.898 Mbps

Audio Stream: 1 (Primary)
Codec MPEG MPEGLayer Layer 2
Channels 2.0 Language swe
PID x224 PES Stream Id xC0
Bit rate 256 Kbps Sampling rate 48000
Sample size 16 bits



Then I don't need to upgrade VideoReDo at this stage. I will keep a look out if this will be supported in the future. As said before this is the only thing I'm still looking for in my present setup.

Question is what determines if it's DVB or teletext and if this is possible to change in anyway?

Anyway, many thanks for all help!
 
#18
Hi again,

Actually I'm the kind of guy that doesnt accept that there is no work arounds available...;)

So maybe not related to VideoReDo but I found a solution that was pretty obvious:

1. I record a .wtv file with WMC7 and there I get the sound and the picture but not the subtitles without playing it back again in WMC7

2. I convert the .wtv file to .ts or anything else that I can use (still without subtitles)

3. I download the Swedish .srt from a site (almost all movies are very easy to find)

4. I play the movie in my Xtreamer which can play .ts + use the .srt file at the same time.

Problem solved :)

If I need to resync the .srt I can either do this directly with the Xstreamer or write a script that can correct all time entries in the .srt textfile so it fits with the edited movie
 
#19
If I need to resync the .srt I can either do this directly with the Xstreamer or write a script that can correct all time entries in the .srt textfile so it fits with the edited movie
I guess it's possible to do that. I also think it requires A LOT of work to sync the subtitles.
 
#20
I guess it's possible to do that. I also think it requires A LOT of work to sync the subtitles.
Why do you think it would require a lot of work?

If I download a .srt text file it already has all the timing included in the file.
Let's then assume the time between the subtitles in the file is correct i.e. that if you check the first subtitle with the corresponding sound and sync diff is 10 seconds then all the rest of the subtitles also have a diff of 10 seconds.

Then you just write a script in Excel that open the textfile, update all time entries with + 10 seconds and then save back the text file. If there still is a small sync problem you can easily adjust this real time when playing the file in Xtremer.

I guess also there would be programs available that can do this kind of resync for you.

Anyway this is a shortcut and works in some case if you find the .srt file.
The best would of corse to be able to keep also the teletext in the file conversion or hope that the media players will be able to handle wtv files in the future.

May I ask what kind of recordings you have to get DVB subtitles?
I have Swedish Comhem and record for instance Canal+ movies with a firedtv. When showing the subtitles it looks like text-tv and what I could dig up is that Canal+ is using teletext.
 
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