Problems with Ulead DMF and DVD-Lab

Uli

New member
Hi Dan and Phd,

until now I used VRD for cutting and remuxing recordings in SVCD quality for burning them with Nero on CD. For this goal VRD is the bet solution available.

Then I wanted to use my new DVD burner for producing Video DVDs from my own recordings. First, I used DVD Patcher and Ulead DVD Movie Factory to burn my old SVCD recordings to DVD. This seemed to work fine. I did not see sync problems, though I did not look very deeply on it.

Now, I use my Hauppauge PVR 250 to record shows in DVD quality. And I have big problems with burning them correctly onto DVD.

1) With Ulead DVD Movie Factory (all version: 2.12, 2.5, 3.0) there is a huge av-sync problem. Using the original mpeg recorded by the PVR, everything is ok. But of course I want to cut commercials and etc. So, using videos edited with VRD there is a huge AV-out-of-sync. I tried all hints: check the option "Output Streams for Movie Factory" and I tried the entry "CloseAudioDTR=1" in the DVDMF.ini file. Nothing helps. Even for short videos the the video is approx. 200ms behind the audio.

Dan said, that there seems to be a problem for PAL-versions. Is there another solution I could try? Should I upload an out-of-sync-PAL-VOB-file?

2) It seems that DVD-Lab is suggested by some writers here in the forum (not only between the lines.. :). After a short time of learning I find DVD-lab quite powerfull. And there seem to be no real av-sync-problems.

But, how should I set chapter points in a concert recording without hearing the audio? The preview with video and audio is solved much more comfotably in Ulead DMF. (That is possible, since it does not use elementary streams).

Di you have any solutions how to select chapter points based on audio and video information? Do I have to open he audio in Winamp or some audio editor and write down the time index?

Dows VRD can save index points to a text-file or something else that can be imported by DVD-Lab?


Some hints from the gurus here in the forum would be of great help and are highly appreciated.

Kind regards,

Uli
 

Danr

Administrator
Staff member
I'll let PHD answer the chapter question since he uses the VideoReDo project files build chapter markers. VideoReDo will have internal chapter marker support in a future release.

Regarding the Ulead sync issue. If you have a file that create an obvious sync issue with Ulead, then I'd love to get my hands on it. Can you upload a small portion that demonstrates the problem?
 

phd

Super Moderator
Hi Uli,

Here's the way I create chapter points in DMF if its help to you. Most of this will probably work with DVD-Lab as well. I don't have the program.

Following is an example of a .VPrj file that can be created in VRD. When you make all the edit decisions in VRD save the project file as well. Keyboard shortcut is Ctrl+P or you can use the File menu/Save Project.

<Version>2
<Filename>D:\VideoReDo\VR_MOVIE1 (02).mpg
<MPEG Stream Type>2
<Duration>32058693333
<SyncAdjustment>0
<Cut 0>4640302333:6442102333:123684878:177870862 00:07:44;01, 00:10:44;06, 00:07:44;01
<Cut 1>12285940333:14085738333:337410062:391311374 00:20:28;18, 00:23:28;17, 00:17:28;12
<Cut 2>19514828666:21775754000:543158286:610146318 00:32:31;14, 00:36:17;17, 00:26:31;09
<Cut 3>25214189000:27178818333:706539534:764213262 00:42:01;12, 00:45:17;26, 00:32:15;05

Basically, all I do is use the last bit of info from every line which represents the cut points where I have edited out the commercials. The time that is indicated in this example is the time of where the cuts are in the outputted MPEG file. The cuts appear at: 00:07:44;01, 00:17:28;12, 00:26:31;09 and 00:32:15;05

For my purposes, since these are TV shows, this is where the commercials are removed. After the file has finished outputting in VRD, I reload the outputted into VRD and open the VPrj file in notepad. I have the 2 open simultaneously and resize them to see them side-by-side. I usually want to determine a few additional chapter points that won't be marked by these cut points such as closing credits or beginning and end of opening credits for movies. I Alt+{Tab} between the 2 applications and add additional time notations at the bottom of the VPrj file and resave. I just use something I can quickly add to the file in the format HH.MM.SS.FF or MM.SS.FF if its a short file. This additional text does not harm the project file so if you rerum the project in VRD it ignores the extra lines due to the format not being understood. I resave the VPrj with the additional time notations until I have enough material to burn to DVD.

To author the DVD open the VPrj file in notepad as you have the DVD authoring program simultaeously open. For me in DMF2 I have the program window over to one side of the screen with the notepad file open behind the DMF windows. This way I can read the times on the right side of the Notepad file while adding the times manually into DMF. I use keyboard shortcuts to speed thing up. I keep the mouse pointer over the hour time display below the clip preview window in DMF so all I have to do is click the left mouse buttn and never move the mouse. I enter in the time as HHMMSS into the display. With DMF sometimes the cut time from VRD does not correlate perfectly with the I-frame time in DMF. You can use the left and right arrow a little bit to find the best beginning of the GOP for DMF. Hit Alt+D to set a chapter point and click the left mouse button to start manually entering the next chapter point time in DMF.

DVD-Lab probably has a very similar work flow so most of this will probably translate fairly well.

Also, regarding the audio OOS problem, as Dan mentioned uploading a sample file to him. If you can reproduce it with a small file, or taking that small file and joining it together upon itself and get the audio sync problem. I could also download it from the website and attempt to reproduce it on my computer as well. Something you can also try or wait and see if I can or can't reproduce it. Ulead gives you the option on install for NTSC, PAL or both. You could try an uninstall and reinstall. Also, I assume if you are hardy enough to find and edit the .INI file, you probably installed all the patches (including the DVD burning patch?)

Let me know if I can help. BTW, I hope the chapter point explanation wasn't too wordy.

Pat
 

phd

Super Moderator
Right you are Peter,

There was some good info in that post that I have never seen on the Ulead forum in addition to the CloseAudioDTR, they are now recommending 3 lines be added.
1. Locate DVDMF.ini file in the C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\Ulead Systems\Ulead DVD MovieFactory\1.0.
2. Open it and add three flags in the VIODRIVER section like below.
[VIODRIVER]
CloseAudioDTR=1
AlwaysAudioSeek=1
AlwaysVideoSeek=1

3. Close and save the ini file.
(I thought it was worth adding here for convenience sake.)

Also, here was some commentary on the latest burning engine that had been on the forum and posted on Ulead's website"
The spec for the latest version (build 246 dated 27 July 04 )of the CD/DVD burning engine patch includes the statement :-
1. Improved the audio/video sync issue specifically for incomplete mpeg files where the audio begins before the video or where many frames
have been dropped during file creation.

you can download the latest patch from :-
http://www.ulead.co.uk/tech/general/burning_engine.htm
Pat
 

Uli

New member
Hi Dan,

DanR said:
Can you upload a small portion that demonstrates the problem?
Yes, I will. Give me some time to prepare the example.

BTW: Yesterday I prepared some SVCD-quality Material (2MBit/s, 480x576) (VRD..DVDPatcher..DMF..PowerDVD/Nero) and it seemed to be no problem.

But when working with DVD-quality video (3Mbit/s, 720) (VRD..DMF..PowerDVD/Nero) the problem occurrs.

I will try to prepare an example that is small and reproducable.

Uli
 

Uli

New member
Hi Pat,
phd said:
Let me know if I can help. BTW, I hope the chapter point explanation wasn't too wordy.
pooh....

First, it is interesting to see that someone else likes to use DMF. DVD-Lab is much more powerfull when creating a nice DVD menu. However, DMF is much more comfortbable and also faster for just burning some tv shows on DVD with a simple selection menu.

Second, from you description I learn that there is no *simple* way of transferring the cut points to the authoring program. When I transferred the chapters from DMF to DVDLab, I used pen and paper.. :) to write down the times manually. DMF seems to not having a possibility to import the cut points. However, DVDLab lets the user export or import the chapter points as txt-files. Perhaps this offers interesing possibilities for the interaction with VRD.

Give some more time to find out my favourite way of authoring my videos....

Uli
 

Uli

New member
Hi again,
phd said:
There was some good info in that post that I have never seen on the Ulead forum in addition to the CloseAudioDTR, they are now recommending 3 lines be added.
Oops, you are right. I also only tried the one line.

Also, here was some commentary on the latest burning engine that had been on the forum and posted on Ulead's website
That is (I think) not interesting to me. I always create the DVD-directory on the hard disc. Then I test the result using PowerDVD. And already here the sync problem is visible. For burning to DVD I always use Nero. That seems to be a stable solution for me. The burned DVD always shows the same behaviour as the "virtual" dvd on hard disc played by PowerDVD.

Uli
 

Uli

New member
Upload of samples

Hi,

into the directory uploads/uli I uploaded 3 files:

* Ohrwurm-Ausschnitt.mpg

A short cut out of a recording. VRD was set to "output stream for movie factory" and packet size is set to "DVD". If you play this video with any software, it is in sync.

* Ohrwurm-DMF.zip

This video authored to a simple DVD using Ulead DVD Movie Factory. I used verion 2.5. Of cause I added the three lines to the DVDMF.ini file. If I play this DVD from hard disc with PowerDVD, it is totally out of sync. After burning to DVD and playing on my two dvd players, the same thing.

If a author the original recording of my tv card to a DVD, without cutting it with VRD, it is in sync.

* Ohrwurm-DVDLAB.zip

The same video authored to a simple DVD using DVDLab 1.31. Although I made everything "wrong" ("output stream for movie factory" was on, I used on-the-fly demuxing and not demux to elementary stream, I used the fast muxer of DMF and not the alternative), the result is in sync.


Of cause the videos are all in PAL norm. I hope you can play it with some kind of software. And I hope that the OOS is reproduced for you.


And sorry for the german lyrics. :) It is a cut where you can see the synchronicity of the lips very well. It means "Hello hello, here comes your ear candy (in the sense of catchy tune)", a song of a german comedy a cappella singing group named "wise guys". :)


Hope the video fragment helps finding the cause.

Uli
 

Peter

New member
Hi Uli,

If your vob's are off, then the burn will be too. I found that it wasn't worth burning to check them if the vob (which you can run in VRD) was out of sync.

I had this problem with MF 1, but when I d/l'd a trial version of MF3, my problems went away. You could try that.

Quote:
Also, here was some commentary on the latest burning engine that had been on the forum and posted on Ulead's website


That is (I think) not interesting to me. I always create the DVD-directory on the hard disc.
The burn process (direct to DVD) creates the files on HDD first, then copies to DVD, then deletes the temp files (I think!).

So the 'burn engine' might be doing the authoring too, so it's worth testing.

Peter
 

phd

Super Moderator
Hi Uli,

I downloaded your files. All 3 files play in sync on my computer without any problems. I tried them in VRD, Sonic Cine Player (which is what I use most of the time to check for sync on rendered DVD folders) and PowerDVD V3.0

A lot of people use Nero to burn to DVD as well as use PowerDVD to play back MPEGs. I didn't notice any sync issues with my version of PowerDVD. Maybe its the MPEG playback codec that's installed on your machine? (Which still wouldn't explain the audio OOS on the burned DVDs.

You don't by any chance have Aobe Premiere installed on your machine or another program that uses the Main Concept MPEG encoder. I know the Ulead and Adobe versions of Main Concept on the same machine can cause problems, but that's clutching at straws.

Maybe Dan has some better ideas.

Pat
 

phd

Super Moderator
Hi Uli,

I also burned your DMF authored folder to a DVD+RW and played it on my Apex player which can handle PAL format DVDs as well. Didn't get any audio sync problems. I burned with neoDVD.
 

Danr

Administrator
Staff member
Hi Uli,

Hate to say this, but all three files play in sync on my system with:

WinDVD, Nero ShowTime, and VideoReDo (opening the VOB files directly).

BTW, I love accapella music. Feel free to upload the whole program. :)
 

Uli

New member
Hi Dan and Pat,

thank you for testing.

DanR said:
Hate to say this, but all three files play in sync on my system with:

WinDVD, Nero ShowTime, and VideoReDo (opening the VOB files directly).
Then I have no idea for the moment. :roll:

I will try it againg using Nero ShowTime. I also noticed that playing the VOB causes different OOS with different software. VRD and WinTV2k are better than PowerDVD. However, that does not help, if both of my hardware DVD players have problems.

And since only the combination VRD+DMF causes problems, there must be something specific with this combination....

Can the burning software influence the sync of a ready made DVD directory? I would say no. Other opinions?

@Pat: I don't have Adobe Premiere installed.

Uli
 

Danr

Administrator
Staff member
Uli, if you want to send me a longer file perhaps by snail mail, I'd be glad to do some additional testing for you. There have been a couple reports of PAL users having some sync issues, but we can't even seem to be able to duplicate it.

BTW, I agree with you, I don't see how burning software alone could cause sync issues.
 

phd

Super Moderator
Uli,

I have an idea for you to try. Uninstall DMF completely and reinstall using the option for Both NTSC and PAL modes.

Perhaps the NTSC files that are installed by Ulead do something different. I had installed both NTSC and PAL options on my machine and since Dan and I are in NTSC territory and don't see the audio OOS, perhaps it will make a difference.
 

Uli

New member
phd said:
Uli,

I have an idea for you to try. Uninstall DMF completely and reinstall using the option for Both NTSC and PAL modes.
hi Pat,

I will try to follow your idea. I am not sure if it is possible to install both options. If I remember correctly, then you have to enter the country you live in at the installation. Then the system is selected automatically. But I will try to give my best.

Uli
 

phd

Super Moderator
On the same page below the country option on installation, there is an option to install both NTSC and PAL versions.

Pat
 

Uli

New member
DanR said:
Uli, if you want to send me a longer file perhaps by snail mail...
I will do.

Which file do you want to get? I could offer the original recording, the file (cut and) remuxed with VRD and of cause the VOB authored with DMF.

Uli

P.S. this file will also be a candidate for my audio studdering problems while playback in VRD. Perhaps my computer (1100MHz, onboard grafics) is too slow for this new multimedia stuff... :?

P.S.: with snail mail, you mean this old fashioned packing some contents into paper and glueing some small funny stamps on it? :lol: Or did you mean E-Mail? No, I can upload from my office, since we have a big line (34MBit) at no cost at the university, if this is ok for you.

Uli
 

Uli

New member
phd said:
On the same page below the country option on installation, there is an option to install both NTSC and PAL versions.
Oops, that's a fast answer... 8)

I remember that this option was inactive, but I will try it again...

Uli
 
Top Bottom