ongoing development of VideoReDo TVSuiteV4 w/H.264 (?)

Veldy

New member
I'm not sure that line of reasoning (let me help) would work with, say, MS or most other commercial entities.

Not doing your research on what you buy is only your fault, although in this instance I'd expect a good final outcome.
It wasn't a matter of doing research. I had been using the V3 suite on somebody else's computer and decided to get mine. A simple google search found the order page for V4. THEY but it there. It said nothing about beta. There was no indicator on the site that it was beta and it let me order as a new customer. When I didn't get a download link I sent them a support message. Further digging found the download link in this very forum and that is when I found out it was beta. They did process my order and email me a valid key. It worked and is what I have been using since.

Simply put, they should have responded to my support ticket or not processed my order. Having said that, I like the software and use it, so I am not complaining really. It is just that the site said it had working WTV and H.264 editing and it really doesn't. WTV technically works but the bugs are obvious and it is very slow (easier to convert back to dvr-ms and edit it).

Hence, I have a genuine interest in the next beta or the final release. I suspect a lack of good developers (meaning they don't have enough or they aren't that good, the latter of which can make updating software a real nightmare if it wasn't designed well). I would suggest a new WPF based front end with all the codecs supported in individual assemblies where an interface driven core would make such upgrades easy. Same approach for containers (i.e. WTV, MKV, MPG, TiVo, etc.).

They know how to reach me if they want help (perhaps the economy has hit them too hard).

I am counting on eventually one way or another.
 

dlflannery

Moderator
....... A simple google search found the order page for V4. THEY but it there. It said nothing about beta........
Where is this "order page" ? I just did some Google searching and didn't find such a page.
....... I like the software and use it, so I am not complaining really. .........
Could have fooled me! :)
.......
They know how to reach me if they want help (perhaps the economy has hit them too hard).
........
Such public patronizing statements are downright insulting and I think you know that -- or at least it should be obvious. If you sincerely want to help them (a questionable concept at best) you should use private communications to offer such help.

There is a kernel of valid complaint in your posts but their tone is not constructive.
 

Dan203

Senior Developer
Staff member
WTV being slow and buggy is not entirely our fault, Microsoft has a hand in it as well. MS made the WTV format considerably harder to deal with then the old DVR-MS format. The only reason it works as well as it does is because we got some insider tips from an MS employee who happens to be a VideoReDo user. In fact if it weren't for him then it probably wouldn't be in the product at all. That being said we are still actively working on the code and it will evolve and get better over time.

As for the H.264 editing... Our H.264 editing isn't perfect, but it's solid. In fact I don't think there are any other editors on the market that can do quick editing of H.264 as well as we do. Like WTV support our editing code is always evolving and will get better over time, but what we have now is still the best H.264 editor available today.

You say you're a professional developer, if so then you'll understand that doing things like converting to "a new WPF based front end with all the codecs supported in individual assemblies" is NOT as easy as it sounds. VideoReDo has evolved over many years from a simple MPEG-2 GOP editor into a full featured TV Suite. It's not perfect but we are very proud of what we have accomplished so far and we are working toward making it better every day.

Dan
 

cp2

Member
wtv editing/ compatibility

Maybe it is time to be pragmatic about this. Instead of incorporating wtv editing in the main module why not concentrate on conversion via QSF to dvr-ms or ts?
I can record BBC/ ITV programmes using Media Centre or DvbViewer and for HD programmes I now always use the latter as I know that I will have more recovery possibilities if there is a problem with the recording. I have no other options if VRD cannot handle the wtv file .
A stable and consistent conversion step may increase processing time but would perhaps simplify the main module.
 

Ararat

New member
Maybe it is time to be pragmatic about this. Instead of incorporating wtv editing in the main module why not concentrate on conversion via QSF to dvr-ms or ts?
Why would they do that? It is already possible for those that wish to do so. So the only change would be to make that mandatory, and effectively that is just removing functionality with zero added benefit.

Btw, there is no reason to QSF to dvr-ms (unless you have a damaged source file) as Win 7 has a built in converter.
 

tonys

Member
Btw, there is no reason to QSF to dvr-ms (unless you have a damaged source file) as Win 7 has a built in converter.
Unfortunately the Win 7 converter does not work for H.264 content. The only converter I have found that really works for H.264 WTV (including multiple audio tracks) is remuxtool.jar - you can find out more about it on The Green Button.
 
It wasn't a matter of doing research. I had been using the V3 suite on somebody else's computer and decided to get mine. A simple google search found the order page for V4. THEY but it there. It said nothing about beta. There was no indicator on the site that it was beta and it let me order as a new customer. When I didn't get a download link I sent them a support message. Further digging found the download link in this very forum and that is when I found out it was beta. They did process my order and email me a valid key. It worked and is what I have been using since.

Simply put, they should have responded to my support ticket or not processed my order. Having said that, I like the software and use it, so I am not complaining really. It is just that the site said it had working WTV and H.264 editing and it really doesn't. WTV technically works but the bugs are obvious and it is very slow (easier to convert back to dvr-ms and edit it).
If you had done your research, in this forum, then you would have discovered the numerous threads relating to the MS WTV issues.:cool:

Mike
 
WTV being slow and buggy is not entirely our fault, Microsoft has a hand in it as well. MS made the WTV format considerably harder to deal with then the old DVR-MS format. The only reason it works as well as it does is because we got some insider tips from an MS employee who happens to be a VideoReDo user. In fact if it weren't for him then it probably wouldn't be in the product at all. That being said we are still actively working on the code and it will evolve and get better over time.
Dan
Dan, perhaps setting up a parallel development with V4 and WTV only since MS does not want to release the specs and WTV has been problematic. Or just do away with WTV since it is such a pain. Because once you figure things out all MS has to do is release a patch(es) to change things and now you have to play catchup again. I think the folks that want to use MS Media Center use it at their own risk unless MS has an app to convert WTV to some universal container.

Mike
 

sunnyfunny

New member
I bought VR in April 2010. Now it's September and the Software is still beta! No Updates since April. I am pissed off !!!!!
 

SimonP

Member
AFAIK 4.20.5.600 was a full release, not beta. If that's not good enough, this thread and many others will tell you that they are busy working on the next stage - and they do have lives outside of this.

Good things come to those who wait, and the next release is always worth waiting for, but if you're that unhappy go and find a better frame-accurate MPEG/H.264 editor.
 
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Dirk67

New member
about WTV:
I think for some developers, who has to work with the wired WTV Format
this is a good source:
--> http://wiki.multimedia.cx/index.php?title=WTV

it's related to the user "dburckh" from thegreenbuttom.com - Forums
--> http://thegreenbutton.com/forums/t/61538.aspx?PageIndex=5
who has creates a "remuxTool" that is able to convert WTV (SD+HD) into e.g. TS-HD or mpeg without transcoding

this is the only tool (up to now) that was able to convert all my german TV-streams SD + HD (H.264) without any problems into TS(HD) and mgeg files that both can be cutted, reworked, burned to dvd/bluray with many other software on the market that is able to understand "normal" TS or mpeg...

maybe it is worth to take a look at his sourcecode that could be in the jar file of his "remuxTool" v.1.2.2 (?)
--> http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?zsrncp7moukmt5t

B.T.W.:
another german guy took this (and other tools) and put it under a GUI for better usage:
--> http://mctvconverter.vivolum.net/content/site/en/home/index.html




I still hope and wait VRD could overcome the last few bugs related with WTV,
to have all functionalities in one software...
 
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Dan203

Senior Developer
Staff member
That is very interesting information. It looks like this guy has reverse engineered the WTV format and figured out how to extract the TS stream stored inside it. I'm not sure how/if we can use his work in VRD but we will definitely take a look at it.

Thanks for the info.

Dan
 

Dirk67

New member
It looks like this guy has reverse engineered the WTV format and figured out how to extract the TS stream stored inside it.
I think this is exactly what he did..
I think you should contact him ("dburckh"), he is a nice person who likes to help in this technical things...

Its all done in Java:
you can unpack his *.jar file with WinRAR.
 
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This all looks very interesting but what is scary that since WTV is a proprietary format of MS, they can change things virutally at any time with the patch updates.

Mike
 

Danr

Administrator
Staff member
Hi Dirk67, Thanks very much for the links. We will definitely take a look at this. At the start of the WTV project we had a choice about whether to use the Microsoft direct show filter to read the WTV files or reverse engineer it. We choose the former primarily because WTV was brand new (Fuji / Vista TVPack), subject to change allowing us to preserve long term compatibility, and we thought development would be quicker. In retrospect, I think we were way way wrong on the development effort, and some recent changes in the way h264 streams are broadcast in Europe would benefit us greatly by extracting the underlying TS formats from WTV.

Our new upcoming multi-audio stream support would also benefit from access to the underlying TS stream since the MSoft reader can only support a single audio stream and a single sub-title stream at a time.

So in addition to contacting dburckh, we are having our WTV consultant take a look what it would take for us to implement this internally.

Thanks again.
 

Danr

Administrator
Staff member
Regarding on-going development, yes its still in progress. Lots of new things and many fixes coming. I hope to post a new version very very soon.
 

Danr

Administrator
Staff member
This all looks very interesting but what is scary that since WTV is a proprietary format of MS, they can change things virutally at any time with the patch updates.
Assuming we go in this direction, and that is still an assumption, we can always fall back to our current Msoft direct show reader.
 

Dirk67

New member
to be honest:
today I reviewed my "problem"-WTVs (german DVB-S/S2)
(HD-WTVs that make VRD slow or crashing or SD-WTVs getting the wrong Audio and so on...)

but today I used the "MC-TVconverter"
http://mctvconverter.vivolum.net/content/site/en/home/index.html
(based on the "remuxTool" from "dburckh" as explained some posts above...)
to convert the WTVs to TS-Files (HD & SD)

BEFORE loading them into VRD

and then everything works fine within VRD (!)
no crash, no slowing down, no QSF needed, choosing the right Audio Stream
with all/any of my "problem"-WTVs ...

works perfect then !
 
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