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Freeze-up caused by switching (too quickly?) into P for Preview mode?

#1
I'll write the steps that have caused me a couple VRD freeze-ups using the new 2.5.1.486, even though I can't reproduce the problem right now. Maybe it'll help someone else notice a possible bug.

Note: I'm using all key commands and previewing to see if I like where an edit ends.

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VRD freezing after I hit P for Preview
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SUMMARY:
I think this happens because I hit "P" to get into Preview mode too soon after hitting "R" for "Replace the old selection with the new, overlapping one I've just entered."

DETAILS:
I use F3 and F4 to set start & end points.
I hit Insert to create a selection from those points.

I hit P to preview. (That puts me at the end of the preview clip.)
I hit Up Arrow to go back 2 seconds (my personal setting).
I hit space to preview the last 2 seconds of the clip (and decide that I want it a little longer).

I hit P to get out of preview mode.
I hit E to get to the end of the clip.
I get my cursor to a new end point. (Right Arrow, etc.)
I hit F4 to create the new end point.

I hit Insert to create a selection from the start point and the new end point.
The dialog asks if I want to Combine or Replace.
I hit R for replace.
I hit P to get back to preview. (possibly too soon after R?)

The program freezes up.

I'm glad VRD saved all my previous Ctrl-B batch file points to files on the hard drive, so they're still there when I force a quit and then restart VRD.

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Anyway, as I said, I can't reproduce this on demand, but I know that it's happening. If it helps anyone else see a pattern, then I'm glad I've been able to contribute.

Thanks.
 

Anole

Moderator
#2
Might be interesting to know your video format (probably not hi def),
your video card, and CPU type/speed.
Also, does the machine seem sluggish for any other reason, such as editing a file on a drive across a network, or running some other app while editing??
Maybe even OS and ram.
 

phd

Super Moderator
#3
I tried replicating your issue but have not been successful.

Since you mentioned you are using the Insert key, I assume you are in scene mode and not cut mode?

What are your system specs? OS + SP, CPU, RAM, video card, audio card?

How frequently does this occur?

What other versions have you used besides 486 and was this an issue in the other versions?

Has anyone else seen this issue?
 
#4
Again, I should point out that I can't reliably repeat this, but it has happened two or maybe three times today since installing the latest beta.

There are a couple apps that I run that might also contribute. One is called RSIGuard which pops up occasionally and tells me it's time to rest my wrists. The other is AVG Anti-Virus software.


In answer to the questions...


>Might be interesting to know your video format (probably not hi def),

Video format:
MPEG2, a VOB recorded by my Sony DVD Recorder.

Actually, multiple VOBs. I copy the five VOB files to my HD, use VRD to "combine" them (which creates a .VLST file), then I drag that .VLST file into VRD when I want to cut some clips.

Video card:
256MB PCI Express™ x16 (DVI/VGA/TV-out) ATI Radeon X600 SE HyperMemory


CPU type/speed:
Dell Dimension E510 Series Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor 650 w/HT Technology (3.4GHz,800FSB)

Also, does the machine seem sluggish for any other reason, such as editing a file on a drive across a network, or running some other app while editing??
Nah. I never got this particular freeze until today with the newest beta.


Maybe even OS and ram.
Windows XP Media Center Edition, Service Pack 2. 1 gig of RAM.

Audio card:
Integrated Sound Blaster® Audigy® ADVANCED HD Audio

How frequently does this occur:
Either 2 or 3 times today. I'll come back and add more detail if it happens some more.

What other versions have you used besides 486 and was this an issue in the other versions?
Only the last official release version. 2.2.1


By the way, half the reason I reported this, other than to be helpful, was to see if someone else said, "Oh, watch out for hitting 'R' for Replace," or "You're switching back and forth into Preview mode? That takes a full second," or something like that.

So, if anyone reading this wants to offer me a "tip," my ears are open.

Thanks.
 
#5
Follow-up: I'm still getting the error.

I got the freeze-up 2 more times in under an hour.

I then tried 3 things:

1. I restarted my computer.
2. I turned off my always-running RSIGuard software.
3. I changed the default "Add Selection" behavior to replace without asking.

I still froze up again. Even with these changes, it still seems that hitting "Insert" and then quickly hitting "P" for preview will sometimes lock VRD up completely.

I'll have to weigh the trade-offs between some future audio level adjusting (plus any other benefits I might get from this latest beta) vs. freezing up and having to restart the app about once per hour.
 
#6
A few thoughts: Do you have thumbnails on or off? Are you going into preview mode while the thumbnails are being redrawn? Does the problem occur if thumbnails are off?
 

phd

Super Moderator
#7
>Might be interesting to know your video format (probably not hi def),

Video format:
MPEG2, a VOB recorded by my Sony DVD Recorder.

Actually, multiple VOBs. I copy the five VOB files to my HD, use VRD to "combine" them (which creates a .VLST file), then I drag that .VLST file into VRD when I want to cut some clips.
Your issue may be related to the fact that they are VOBs with timestamp issues.

Process the VLST file through QuickStream Fix first, then load the fixed file for editing.
 
#8
HyperReality: I have thumbnails off.


phd: I did a QSF. It created a 4.12GB file ("VTS_01_1 (02).mpg"). I was then able to reliable freeze several times in a row while trying to preview a single clip in that file. All I had to do was:

1. open the file,
2. select start and end points,
3. hit "Insert," and then
4. hit "P" for preview.

I could even wait as long as I wanted in between these steps and the app would still freeze up every time.


This evening, I'll try a bunch of variations on that test to see which ones freeze me up and which ones don't.

A series of tests. "Will it freeze if I..."

- have unsaved files in the Batch Manager?
- have Batch Manager files that point to a different VOB?
- use my mouse to push the "Insert" button?
- use my mouse to push the Preview button?
- use slightly different start & end times?
- use majorly different start & end times?
- try the same start & end times with the original .VLST file (instead of the 4.12GB, QSF-ed file)?
- try the same start & end points on a different 4.12 MPG file?


Also, I will test: "Will it freeze..."

- now that I've restarted?
- now that I've chkdsk-ed?
- now that I've defragged?


I hope that in about 12 hours, I can narrow down the problem for you.
 
#9
Okay, I tried all of the tests above and I have isolated the problem.

The problem is the exact start and end points that I used.

"1.40.04.00" to "1.40.55.27": freeze
"1.40.04.00" to "1.40.55.26": freeze
"1.40.04.01" to "1.40.55.27": freeze
"1.40.04.01" to "1.40.55.26": NO FREEZE!

Most importantly, when I tried these exact start & end points on a completely different file, I got the exact same results!

Notes:

When I double-click the timestamp to jump to 1.40.04.00, I end up at "1.40.04.01" instead. (VRD added a frame.)
When I double-click the timestamp to jump to 1.40.55.27, I end up at "1.40.55.26" instead. (VRD deducted a frame.)

It did this on both 2-hour movies I tried.

If I use these revised times ("1.40.04.01" and "1.40.55.26") as my start & end points, I am okay. If I deviate by a frame (setting the start or end points back to the original times that I entered) and then try to preview, I freeze up.


Apparently, the error has nothing to do with the other things that seemed likely, including the act of clicking Preview "too quickly."

Here are the full results of my tests, although probably not needed now that the problem is isolated to the actual timestamp frame numbers (on two different movies)...


A series of tests. "Will it freeze if I..."

- launch by dragging the MPG onto the VRD desktop icon? yes
- launch by dragging the MPG onto an already-launched VRD? yes
- use VRD's "Open" command to open the MPG? yes


- use my mouse to push the "Insert" button, Preview button, and set the start & end times? yes
- use slightly different start & end times? ** NO! **
- try the same start & end times with the original .VLST file? yes
- try the same start & end points on a different 4.12 MPG file? ** YES! **
- run VRD without RSIGuard running? yes


- double-click on the timestamp to jump to the exact frame? yes
- don't double-click on the timestamp to jump to the exact frame? yes
- try revised points of "1.40.04.01" and "1.40.55.26"? ** NO! **


Also, I will test: "Will it freeze..."

- now that I've restarted? yes
- now that I've ChkDsk-ed? yes
- now that I've defragged? yes


I hope that someone else will try this same test:
1. open a 2-hour VOB or MPG file,
2. add a selection of those exact frames ("1.40.04.00" to "1.40.55.27"), and
3. see what happens when you Preview.

Thanks.
 
Last edited:

Danr

Administrator
Staff member
#10
Thanks very much for the research we will try and duplicate it here. One more favor please, Open your VLST, go to Tools>Show Program Info and paste the info here. Want to make sure we are using the same frame rates, dimensions, etc. And, if you have saved our output, what is the average video bitrate on the completion screen? This information is also written to the log file.

Thanks.
 
#12
DanR said:
Thanks very much for the research we will try and duplicate it here. One more favor please, Open your VLST, go to Tools>Show Program Info and paste the info here. Want to make sure we are using the same frame rates, dimensions, etc.
That sounds easy enough. I'll do it when I get home in a couple hours.


DanR said:
And, if you have saved our output, what is the average video bitrate on the completion screen? This information is also written to the log file.
I'm sorry. I don't know what you mean by "saved our output" or "completion screen." And I don't know where I would find a log file.

If you give me more specific instructions, I'd be glad to follow them.

I was thinking I might even see if I can reproduce the error on a file that is a small subset of my 4.12GB file. If I can reproduce it on something small enough, I'll be glad to FTP you that file.

Thanks.
 
#13
I see that phd was able to reproduce the problem, so I hope I've given enough detail.

Playing around with the jump-to-frame further, it seems that I can't jump to ANY timecode that ends in ":00". Nor any that ends in ":55:27".

So, I can now reproduce this problem by trying to cut a clip from 00:20:00:00 to 00:20:55:27.


Okay, DanR asked me to paste my Program Info here, so here goes:

File Name: C:\Raw video\QSF - VTS_01_1 (02).mpg
File Size: 4424183812 ( 4.12 GB )
Program Duration: 02:00:09.00
File Type: PS - MPEG2
Encoding: MPEG 2
Video stream Id: xE0
Encoding Dimensions: 720 x 480
Display Size: 720 x 480
Aspect Ratio: 4/3
Frame Rate: 29.97 FPS
Bit Rate: 9.800 Mbps
VBV_Buffer: 224 KB
Profile: Main/Main
Progressive: Prog or Int
Chroma: 4:2:0
Audio Format: 2.0
Audio Stream Id: AC3: 0 (x80)
Audio Bit Rate: 256 Kbps
Audio Sampling Rate: 48000 Hz
 

Danr

Administrator
Staff member
#14
Thanks, we are close to fixing it. I don't think we will need any additional information at this point.
 
#15
It seems that the workaround for this would be something like this:

Every time I want to preview a clip:

1. Hit S to go to the clip's Start point.
2. Double-click the timecode.
3. Hit Enter to go to that time
4. Make sure it takes me to the exact frame I've set for the Start point. (That way, I'll know that it recognizes that as a valid frame, or something.)

5. Repeat steps 1-4, hitting E to go to the End point instead.

Then, once I've confirmed both that points are acceptable, I can safely click P for Preview.

This won't take TOO long, I suppose, although I'm wondering if I should just roll back to the January release until this issue is fixed in some way.


Any suggestions?

Thanks.
 

Danr

Administrator
Staff member
#16
We think we found and fixed the problem. Will be doing some QA on the fix, and if no problems pop up will post it as a new beta sometime tomorrow.
 
#17
I just installed VideoReDoPlus-2-5-1-487, and I was able to save this set of frames without error.

(Note: Trying to jump-to timecode "1.40.04.00" still dropped me off at frame "1.40.04.01," but when I set start and end points of "1.40.04.00" - "1.40.55.27", I no longer freeze up.)
 
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