4X3 Letterbox -> 16X9 No Box?

[dvd2955]

Maybe I am using the wrong search words / terms??...

But I record from both HDTV Receiver and DirecTV "LETTERBOXED" [CSI, House, SciFi Channel ect..] programs to my set top DVD+R recorders.... but only in 4X3 full frame...

Is there a utility [Once the DVD+RW has been converted to a MPEG STREAM] <DVD Decrypter> with "HOW TO BURN BACK TO DVD" to "CROP" the TOP & BOTTOM bars so that when played on a widescreen TV that the bars are now gone?? and the display is 16X9??

I currently edit these using 'VideoReDo' and create menus using 'Ulead MovieFactory {Which does support 16X9}'

--David

 

[DrP]

Your best option would be to set your STB to output as if it has a 16:9 display attached (ie so the picture was out of aspect and filled the 4:3 screen) and then record with your DVD recorder. When you edit the resulting recording, tell VR to flag the output as 16:9.

Where you are now really has no good solution apart from recoding the video or setting some pan/scan flags in the video with ifoedit. Even doing that will give you sub-standard results. Blowing up the 4:3 video so it fills 16:9 without the black bars will give a blurry picture.

 

[laserfan]

DrP is right about setting-up for recording. I have done this with my Standard Def Tivo.

If you already have programs that are now "letterboxed" you can:

1. Use your TV's Zoom feature. Mine is a very good one and not "blurry" at all.

2. Re-work your DVDs to convert to 16x9 anamorphic (lots of re-encoding). Two tools I have used for this: DVD2SVCD and DVD Rebuilder Pro.

Honestly while some swear that #2 is better than #1, and it SHOULD be given that it takes many hours to convert a DVD, I have seen only a marginal (if any) benefit in picture quality vs. my Sony HDTV's built-in Zoom feature.

 

[Danr]

Honestly while some swear that #2 is better than #1, and it SHOULD be given that it takes many hours to convert a DVD, I have seen only a marginal (if any) benefit in picture quality vs. my Sony HDTV's built-in Zoom feature.

I don't iknow why one would think that transcoding would yield higher quality than simply using the TV's zoom feature. The zoom feature simply discards un-needed information, black bars, and zooms the remainder.

Transcoding does the same, discards black bars, and then goes through a decode / recode pass. This will cause some additional information loss. When played back the TV shows the same amount of info it did in #1.

Anamorphic coding will only yield better resolution if the original source material recorded in a 16:9 mode.

 

[laserfan]

I don't iknow why one would think that transcoding would yield higher quality...

Well, many people DO and believe that it does give a better picture. And since re-encoding software has an "unlimited" amount of time to analyze the picture information and upsize it, intuitively it seems this is POTENTIALLY a more accurate way to do it, vs. a hardware device, with limited processing ability, trying to do a good job completely on-the-fly.

But like I said, my Sony's hardware-based Zoom feature seems as good as the several software conversions I've done. But I haven't tried any of the new filters such as Didee's iip or LimitedSharpen...

 

[dvd2955]

I guess you guys are missing the point of the question...

In short I don't want to "ZOOM" the image because that is as bad a "PAN & SCAN" of a movie.. just will not do it!!

The main reason behind the question is.. "PORTABLE DVD PLAYER"... trying to watch a BROADCAST LETTERBOXED MOVIE reduces the size even smaller than the 7" screen.... now becomes a 4" screen...

Now maybe I am thinking too simply... but why can't a "filter"(??) be made so that when copying frames it starts reading at scan line 80 and ending at scan line 400 [for example this would cut the top/bottom 80 horizontal lines] this would leave a letterbox image on the final mpeg file...??

--David

 

[Lester Burnham]

I guess you guys are missing the point of the question...

In short I don't want to "ZOOM" the image because that is as bad a "PAN & SCAN" of a movie.. just will not do it!!

Do you imagine that what you are suggesting, is any better?

The main reason behind the question is.. "PORTABLE DVD PLAYER"... trying to watch a BROADCAST LETTERBOXED MOVIE reduces the size even smaller than the 7" screen.... now becomes a 4" screen...

If your portable DVD player only plays DVDs (ie won't play just pure mpegs burnt on to a DVD-R / RW), then you are constrained by DVD spec resolution - or at least making the player believe you are playing DVD spec resolution.

Now maybe I am thinking too simply... but why can't a "filter"(??) be made so that when copying frames it starts reading at scan line 80 and ending at scan line 400 [for example this would cut the top/bottom 80 horizontal lines] this would leave a letterbox image on the final mpeg file...??

No it wouldn't. It either wouldn't play it back (being out of DVD spec) or would likely stretch it.

And you need to re-encode any time you want to remove or change some of the image.

With letterboxed (essentially 4:3 pictures, with encoded black borders), non-anamorphic video, you have black borders, and the picture in the middle, with an aspect ratio of 4:3.

With anamorphic 16:9 material, you still have encoded black borders (albeit quite small with 1.85:1, more significant with 2.35:1 and greater), although the extra, anamorphic information added as extra lines for the image. The aspect ratio flag tells the playback hardware how to display the final, viewable image, with the correct aspect ratio, and if capable, with the extra anamorphic detail added in.

 

[dvd2955]

I give up...

I give up on trying to get my thought across as it seems that the repliers don't have or own a low end portable DVD player and keep referring to set top box and wide-screen TV spec's

Most of the low end DVD players... that I have seen... use a switch on the LCD monitor to control screen size not software as on set top boxes....

So when you take a Letter-boxed 4X3 TV show broadcast and 'flip the switch' to wide-screen.. you end up "playdoughing" the image... you still have the black bars... but the image is now wide and out of aspect..

Thanks for the replies and maybe others have learned from them...


PS: It is my understanding that this masking request would also help users that convert video to PSP/iPod-Video for easier viewing...

 

[Grandpa Broon]

I suggest you have a look at Doom9's forum on Avisynth Usage or VideoHelp's forum on Video Editing. These are the best places for the info you are after.

 

[laserfan]

I give up on trying to get my thought across...

David I think the answers are in here if you look closely enough. I know what you are saying I think. I have a 5.5" diagonal portable DVD player, and letterboxed programs are tiny in it--black bars above & below & sides. You SHOULD have though a ZOOM mode that does not distort the aspect ratio but rather just cut the black bars off the sides. Mine does, but the resulting picture, while not distorted aspect-wise, is blocky as heck and hard to watch--harder possibly than the tiny boxes-all-around image. And you may still get black above & below if the original program is wider than 1.77:1.

You should be able to avoid making these letterboxed recordings though, once again, by setting your HDTV receiver to think it's outputting to a 16:9 display, rather than a 4:3. Your recordings will thus be "squeezed" anamorphic rather than letterboxed.

Your other option as I said in 2. above is to convert to 16:9 using software.

 

[TimA-C]

I've used both Ulead's VideoStudio9 and it's cropping video filter and TMPGenc's Xpress 3.0 to crop out the black bars and convert widescreen video recorded as 4:3 (i.e. with the black bars as part of the recording) to 16:9 video without bars (quality might not be quite as good, but you have to be looking for it closely on our 28" Toshiba 100Hz widescreen telly - I don't think you'd notice any difference on a 7" portable player!)

On my 32-bit AMD Athlon XP3200 (400Mhz FSB), 1Gb DDR RAM and 2 Western Digital SATA drives it takes VideoStudio about 90 minutes to crop 60 minutes of video. (XPress 3 takes a LOT longer, but probably does a better job)

Hope this helps

 

[clank]

Is there a utility [Once the DVD+RW has been converted to a MPEG STREAM] <DVD Decrypter> with "HOW TO BURN BACK TO DVD" to "CROP" the TOP & BOTTOM bars so that when played on a widescreen TV that the bars are now gone?? and the display is 16X9??

--David

You could try using virtualdub to crop & frameserve the mpeg.

I used it successfully convert a letterbox 4:3 recording to a 16:9 mpeg last year sometime. I frameserved from virtualdub to Mainconcept MPEG Encoder
I dont know if there are any free alternatives to Mainconcept that will do this

 

[dvd2955]

David I think the answers are in here if you look closely enough. I know what you are saying I think. I have a 5.5" diagonal portable DVD player, and letterboxed programs are tiny in it--black bars above & below & sides. .... , by setting your HDTV receiver to think it's outputting to a 16:9 display, rather than a 4:3. Your recordings will thus be "squeezed" anamorphic rather than letterboxed.

First let me say that I am sorry if you got the idea that I was recording from a HDTV receiver.. but it is DirecTivo/Replay shows like "Battlestar G" which are broadcast letterboxed... ... second I am sorry if you think that I was talking about "side bars" which I was not....

 

[Lester Burnham]

First let me say that I am sorry if you got the idea that I was recording from a HDTV receiver..

You wrote in your original message:-

"But I record from both HDTV Receiver and DirecTV "LETTERBOXED" [CSI, House, SciFi Channel ect..] programs to my set top DVD+R recorders.... but only in 4X3 full frame..."

So, not unreasonable for somebody to get that idea, then...

but it is DirecTivo/Replay shows like "Battlestar G" which are broadcast letterboxed...

Are they definitely broadcast letterboxed? Because Battlestar Gallactica is definitely broadcast in anamorphic widescreen in the UK (on digital satellite).

What picture settings are set on your HDTV receiver and / or your PVR recorder?