4K Editing

Danr

Administrator
Staff member
Has anyone tried to use the latest betas for editing 4K video? If so, please provide some feedback as to how successful you were.
 

halfpipe

New member
from sony ax100 producing xavc-s 4k
Select two files 395mb + 18gb)and import chose join. VRD using 80 - 90% cpu (i7 980) began joining the files and the dialogue reported that it was "recoding" output and gave an estimate of 54 minutes remaining so it was recoding the whole works not just the join point. I aborted after 10 minuetes .
MediaInfo 1st will be the Original before joining then the second will be the file produced by vrd:

General
Complete name : N:\Riach-Blu-ray\riach-scoccer\8-16-2014\C0003.MP4
Format : XAVC
Codec ID : XAVC
File size : 389 MiB
Duration : 59s 560ms
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 54.8 Mbps
Encoded date : UTC 2014-08-16 13:57:54
Tagged date : UTC 2014-08-16 13:57:54

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L5.1
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 2 frames
Codec ID : avc1
Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
Duration : 59s 560ms
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 53.0 Mbps
Maximum bit rate : 60.0 Mbps
Width : 3 840 pixels
Height : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 29.970 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.213
Stream size : 377 MiB (97%)
Encoded date : UTC 2014-08-16 13:57:54
Tagged date : UTC 2014-08-16 13:57:54
Color primaries : BT.709
Transfer characteristics : IEC 61966-2-4
Matrix coefficients : BT.709

Audio
ID : 2
Format : PCM
Format settings, Endianness : Big
Format settings, Sign : Signed
Codec ID : twos
Duration : 59s 560ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 536 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 10.9 MiB (3%)
Encoded date : UTC 2014-08-16 13:57:54
Tagged date : UTC 2014-08-16 13:57:54

Other
Type : meta
Duration : 59s 560ms

Now the file produced by vrd
General
Complete name : N:\Riach-Blu-ray\riach-scoccer\8-17-2014\C0004 (02puttogether).mp4
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : QuickTime
Codec ID : qt
File size : 931 MiB
Duration : 7mn 23s
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 17.6 Mbps
Writing application : Lavf54.63.104

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L4.1
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 3 frames
Codec ID : avc1
Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
Duration : 7mn 23s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 16.1 Mbps
Maximum bit rate : 19.7 Mbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Variable
Frame rate : 29.970 fps
Minimum frame rate : 29.970 fps
Maximum frame rate : 30.000 fps
Standard : NTSC
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.258
Stream size : 850 MiB (91%)
Language : English
Color primaries : BT.709
Transfer characteristics : BT.709
Matrix coefficients : BT.709

Audio
ID : 2
Format : PCM
Format settings, Endianness : Big
Format settings, Sign : Signed
Codec ID : twos
Duration : 7mn 23s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 536 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 81.2 MiB (9%)
Language : English
 

Danr

Administrator
Staff member
Looks like you didn't enable the 4K output option.

[Enhancement] 4K support: Added 4K output to shift+Tools>Options>Manual # 53 to allow for testing of output up to 3840x2160. (H264 only).

 

halfpipe

New member
This time with 4K enabled and
General
Complete name : N:\Riach-Blu-ray\riach-scoccer\8-17-2014\C0004 (02puttogether4kenasas).mp4
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : QuickTime
Codec ID : qt
File size : 637 KiB
Duration : 48ms
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 109 Mbps
Writing application : Lavf54.63.104

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L5.1
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 2 frames
Codec ID : avc1
Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
Duration : 34ms
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 154 Mbps
Maximum bit rate : 60.0 Mbps
Width : 3 840 pixels
Height : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 29.970 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.618
Stream size : 626 KiB (98%)
Language : English
Color primaries : BT.709
Transfer characteristics : IEC 61966-2-4
Matrix coefficients : BT.709

Audio
ID : 2
Format : PCM
Format settings, Endianness : Big
Format settings, Sign : Signed
Codec ID : twos
Duration : 48ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 536 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 9.00 KiB (1%)
Language : English
vrdsas4kenable.jpg
 

halfpipe

New member
no sorry it didn't
began the process then a couple seconds vrd didn't actually crash but just reverted to before starting the job. just waiting.

on another

I've just sucessuffly created a terrific looking dvd from 4k files looks a bit like hd with better color
 

Danr

Administrator
Staff member
Can you upload the source file? We tested your previous upload so there must be something different about this one.
 

glenpinn

Member
Dan i was not aware you guys were adding support for 4k editing, and the XAVC format as well, i thought you was only going to add support for ProRes at 1080p.

Cheers
 

glenpinn

Member
@Glen, XAVC as input. If you have samples, please give it a try.
I wish i had some 4k XAVC sample clips to test, will see if i can track some down, and i think my next camera will be a 4k shooting XAVC at high bitrate, but need to see the footage before deciding for sure.

Also, does VRD support import of 4k ProRes files as well, as i have only ever had 1080/25p sample ProRes files (180Mbps)

Prores is difficult to work with and a pain in the butt, it requires color grading with specialist software, and you have to be good at that sort of thing or it doesnt look good, but when you do get it right, it is amazing video, depending on the camera you shoot the video on.
 

glenpinn

Member
Never tested 4K ProRes.
Hi Dan, so even tho you have not tested 4k ProRes yourself with VRD, i am assuming that there is support for importing it, editing, and outputting to other formats such as h.264 in whatever container one chooses, seeing how there seems to be support for importing, editing and outputting XAVC as well.
 

glenpinn

Member
Never tested 4K ProRes.
Hi Dan, so even tho you have not tested 4k ProRes yourself with VRD, i am assuming that there is support for importing it, editing, and outputting to other formats such as h.264 in whatever container one chooses, seeing how there seems to be support for importing, editing and outputting XAVC as well.
 

Danr

Administrator
Staff member
Hi Dan, so even tho you have not tested 4k ProRes yourself with VRD, i am assuming that there is support for importing it, editing, and outputting to other formats such as h.264 in whatever container one chooses, seeing how there seems to be support for importing, editing and outputting XAVC as well.
I wouldn't make that assumption. Logically 4K ProRes should work, but ProRes uses relatively little compression compared with H.264 which makes the bit rates extremely high. I wouldn't presume to say to that it works until it's had some testing.
 

jmc

Active member
Hi Dan, i finally got some HD, 2k and 4k XAVC samples + a 4k RAW, unfortunately they are all .MXF files so i cannot open them.

I can play all but the RAW video, none of my media players support it :(
I got the 4k Clip0010.MXF rabbit sequence just to finally see 4k on my (monitor-the small 4k version)
and only VLC would play it but with no sound... it is PCM... how can it not play PCM.

Nothing else would touch it. VRD needs the PRO version to handle it. TMPGEnc nope.

What programs did you find would play the video and sound?

Heh, 8/10 of a GB for 30 seconds. Won't be streaming that anytime soon.

thanks,
jmc
 
Last edited:

glenpinn

Member
I was able to play all files except the 4k RAW using MPC-hc but no audio

I also reconverted most of the XAVC videos to 1080p h264 in an mp4 container using handbrake, output to roughly 24Mbps and the mp4 looks absolutely amazing, the detail is just mind blowing.
 

jmc

Active member
I was able to play all files except the 4k RAW using MPC-hc but no audio

I also reconverted most of the XAVC videos to 1080p h264 in an mp4 container using handbrake, output to roughly 24Mbps and the mp4 looks absolutely amazing, the detail is just mind blowing.
Yep, VLC and MPC-hc but no sound.

Never looked into Handbrake....May give it a poke or two.
Has to be a much greater need to really dig into a command line program.

Thanks,
jmc
 

glenpinn

Member
Handbrake is purely a front end for the x264 encoder, it has no editing, just cropping, and outputting, but you must manually input all your output settings, and if you output using the Constant Quality setting rather than the Average bitrate setting, it can be a lot of guesswork getting the output RF Factor correct, which will automatically determine the output bitrate.

It is best used for importing of most video formats, and re-encoding to h264 either in an mp4 or mkv container.

Many use it to convert Dvd to h264/mp4, i used to use it to drop my 1080/50p mts files to 720/50p mp4 in the days before i discovered VRD.
 
Top Bottom